Bardock VS Minato
"Great achievement is usually born of great sacrifice, and is never the result of selfishness."
-Napoleon Hill
Bardock, the lone Saiyan Warrior and father to Kakarot.
Minato, the 4th Hokage and father to Naruto.
Goku and Naruto are some of the most impressive and standout Shonen protagonists of all time, each becoming one of the strongest warriors in their respectives series. But they never would have even grown past a day old without the sacrifices of their predecessors.
These two were legendary warriors in their own right, but what would happen if we put their power and skill to the test against each other? Will the low-class Saiyan warrior stab his way to victory, or will the 4th Hokage blow his opposition to smithereens? Let’s find out in a DEATH BATTLE!
Before We Start
Both of these characters are not exactly simple to analyze in a fight context, so it is important to preface this with our rules going forwards.
Bardock will have a soft composite, meaning he will be allowed his canon material as well as closely related media, so long as it's not a drastic departure to the point that it effectively changes the character. This is because his most well known appearance is in non canon animations, as well as the manga having little to analyze. So to summarize, we will be primarily analyzing Bardock: The Father of Goku, Episode of Bardock, and Bardock’s appearances in both Dragon Ball Super: Broly and the Dragon Ball Super manga.
Minato is complicated but in a different way, but in short, we are using a hypothetical "alive" Minato with half of Kurama sealed inside him. This means he has his standard strength and abilities from when he was alive, as well as access to KCM 2, however he will not have abilities granted by his edo form. Imagine this as the fight taking place in the afterlife, if you must.
Background
Bardock
“That’s pathetic… I will be the one to avenge them… me… me! I’m going to defeat you!”
A mere low class warrior amongst the Saiyan army of Planet Vegeta that Frieza controlled, Bardock didn’t seem to be too capable. That couldn’t be further from the truth however, as he and his team conquered numerous planets extremely efficiently one after another. He was living proof that the class system meant nothing, but it would not be long until it truly didn’t mean anything as there would be no Saiyans to fill it up.
After a nigh complete successful life wipe on the Planet Kanassa, Bardock would be struck by an injured Kanassan. Bardock quickly disposed of him, however this interaction bestowed Bardock with the ability to see the future… yeah sure why not.
While recovering after the invasion, Bardock would see glimpses of Planet Vegeta’s destruction and his son Kakarot. But it was after going to the location of his team to catch up on a recent mission that he discovered all but one of them dead. With the last living teammate Tora telling him of Frieza’s betrayal of the Saiyans before passing himself, Bardock swore to avenge his comrades.
However despite his remarkable skill Bardock still struggled to combat Frieza’s army. And even though his psychic powers also confirmed Tora’s dying breath, he could not convince a single Saiyan Warrior to air in his rebellion. Thus he went on alone to battle Frieza himself, a fight that he was fated to lose. A fight that he fought anyways. When caught in Frieza’s Supernova, he had one last glimpse of the future, of his son Kakarot battling the tyrant he failed to defeat. And so Bardock died with a smile, placing his trust in the son he never raised.
However, because money, this is not the only variation of Bardock’s story. In one telling, Frieza’s attack sent him through time… wait what the fuck? Oh and uh, he became a Super Saiyan and defeated Frieza’s ancestor Lord Chilled. In Super’s more recent telling of Bardock, he was a more civil man seeking to protect things when he could, even fighting off infamous space pirates like Gas a while before he actually went to die. He has been through a lot, but no matter the era or story, incarnation or motivation, Bardock will always charge into battle ready to give it his all.
Minato
“Dying to make a better life for his son, that’s a fathers job to handle.”
Even as a child Minato seemed destined for greatness. Acknowledged as a natural prodigy in his training at the Konoha Academy, his goal to become hokage and earn the village's recognition didn’t seem too unlikely. After taking interest in his prowess, the Sanin Jiraiya took Minato as his apprentice believing he would change the world, and teached him everything he knew.
With this training Minato grew into a skilled shinobi, leading his own team of students, inventing ninjutsu, and even securing a future wife. His skills would only further increase as he helped the leaf in the Third Great Ninja War. Leading his team in the Battle of Kannabi Bridge, where he would single handedly wipe out the enemy’s forces and force the war into a peace treaty.
With his outstanding performance in the war Minato would be chosen as the leafs 4th Hokage. But sadly his run would not last long. Soon a masked man would raid the village and unleash the nine tails upon it. Minato would manage to stop the destruction of the village, but when challenging the Nine Tails he would have to sacrifice his life. With him and his wife’s final minutes they sealed away the Nine Tails inside Minato and his newborn son, protecting the village and entrusting the future to their son.
But death is not always eternal. In the midst of the 4th Great Ninja War the Hokage would all be revived to help aid the Allied Shinobi Forces. Minato would arrive at the war in a flash, saving the forces from destruction and finally meeting his son after all those years. With his new mastery of his half of Kurama, Minato would play a large role in helping the shinobi forces during the war, aiding in the battles against Obito and Ten Tails Madara. Quite literally giving a hand to ensure they would succeed. And in the end they did, and with the war won Minato would use the last of his life to see his son one last time, giving him a final happy birthday. As he floated up to the afterlife, he died like he did before: with a smile on his face.
Equipment
Bardock
Saiyan Armor
The average Saiyan comes equipped in highly durable yet light armor that’s easy to move around in. Bardock has his own variation of the armor with its own little differences.
Scouter
Originally created by the Tuffles and later modified by an engineer in Frieza’s army, the Scouter is essentially a monocle combined with a computer. This trusty device is used by all Saiyans, primarily used to scan and display a target’s power level. However, it has other uses, such as tracking someone’s location, transferring information, recording audio, and telling time. It’s worth noting that Scouters have been known to explode if one increases their power level by large amounts at a rapid pace, miraculously leaving no injury to the wearer.
Attack Ball
The Attack Ball is a miniature spaceship that allows for interstellar travel, used by a wide majority of the Saiyan race to conquer planets and return home from missions. They can move at speeds massively faster than light and can be summoned directly to Bardock via his Scouter.
Headband
Ok, we need to point this out. Bardock's headband is literally red because it's soaked from the blood of his dead friend Tora. That's the most metal thing ever.
Minato
Flying Thunder God Kunai
A three pronged kunai used exclusively by Minato. It has his formula inscribed on it, allowing him to instantly teleport to the kunai whenever and wherever it is. During his time fighting in the Third Great Shinobi War, he would often throw several of these kunai at once and teleport all over the place to catch enemies off guard.
Shuriken and Kunai Knives
Minato carries shuriken and kunai for very obvious reasons.
Hokage Cloak
Another article of clothing that we must point out. There’s nothing inherently special about this cloak, but Minato just looks awesome with it on, wouldn’t you agree?
Abilities
Bardock
Saiyan Physiology
Being a member of the Saiyan race, Bardock has strength, speed, durability and stamina far beyond that of a regular superhuman. Thanks to their unique genetics, Saiyans have a trait known as a Zenkai Boost, which allows their battle performance to continuously increase as fights go on by healing from fatal wounds in relatively short periods of time and simultaneously improving their ability. Essentially, as a fight goes on, Bardock gets stronger and stronger the more damage he takes overtime, effectively making prolonged battles more favorable for him.
Martial Arts Skill
As an extremely proficient Saiyan warrior, Bardock is naturally gifted in terms of martial arts skill. Able to fight off tens to hundreds of Frieza Force soldiers one after one and go blow for blow with other experienced fighters like Gas. He has also developed various martial arts techniques for the sake of battle:
Vortex Crusher: Bardock rolls in a rapid motion and lands a hard elbow on the opponent's head.
Dragon Throw: A grappling technique in which Bardock swings around an opponent by their leg.
Heat Phalanx: Bardock slams his right fist into the palm of his left hand, engulfs his fist in what appears to be fire, and delivers a powerful uppercut to his opponent. He can even charge energy into his fist for extra damage before firing out a wave of energy
Wild Sense: Bardock dodges an attack by moving swiftly and counter-attacks the opponent with a punch or a kick, moving so fast that they seem to teleport behind the target.
Flip Shoot: Bardock flips backwards, avoiding enemy attacks, and fires a blue energy wave at the opponent.
Final Revenger: A combination of punches and kicks in the air, ending with a double axe handle that sends the opponent to the ground.
Revenge Assault: Seen in FighterZ as his Level 3, Bardock, in his Super Saiyan form, delivers a combination of attacks before launching his opponent into the air and unleashing a Rebellion Trigger.
Ki Manipulation
By controlling his natural life energy known as Ki, Bardock is capable of various things. He can fly, release shockwaves, and shoot beams of physical energy. He has applied Ki into many different techniques as well:
Riot Javelin: Bardock’s trademark move, he powers up a blue blast of energy before launching it at his opponent.
Full Power Energy Wave: An energy sphere charged and fired in the form of a beam from his hand.
Super Energy Wave Volley: Bardock rapid fires several powerful balls of energy at his opponent, allowing little time to breathe and overwhelming them
Rebellion Spear: Bardock coats himself in a blue aura and charges towards his opponent, ramming them with full force.
Power Ball: By combining ki with the planet's atmosphere, a sphere of condensed Blutz Waves is created, allowing Bardock to become a Great Ape without a full moon needing to be present.
Final Spirit Cannon: Bardock charges a blue energy sphere in one hand before launching it at his opponent
Rebellion Trigger: An energy wave version of the above attack. Bardock launches it at his opponent, sending bursts of ki into the attack to further empower it.
Future Sight
Bardock has the ability to get glimpses of the future, giving him knowledge on events that are to come. Unfortunately Bardock cannot use this ability normally as his visions only come to him randomly, so mid-fight they are not really going to be beneficial.
Minato
Chakra Control
Minato can manipulate the chakra circulating throughout his body to perform many techniques, called Jutsu. Most shinobi are able to use their chakra to do things such as run along surfaces such as water, walls, or even the sides of trees. Minato doesn’t use many techniques himself, but the ones he does use are some of the most effective Jutsu in the world.
Rasengan
A spiraling sphere composed of Minato’s chakra that he holds within the palm of his hand. While Minato is the one who created this technique, it took him 3 years to fully master controlling his chakra in such a perfect manner. He can also perform two at once for the Rasengan Barrage, or increase the amount of chakra used to change the jutsus size.
Various Chakra Natures
The 4th Naruto Databook confirms that Minato has access to the fire, wind, lightning, yin, and yang chakra natures. Wind, Fire, and Lightning do about what you’d expect, but Yin and Yang style jutsu can do just about anything else. He doesn’t use any jutsu of these natures but it’s still worth mentioning that he could possibly do so.
Flying Thunder God (Flying Raijin)
Minato’s most iconic ability, despite him not being the one who created it he is definitely the one who’s mastered it. This technique allows Minato to instantly teleport to any location after marking that location with a special formula. This formula can be inscribed on special kunai knives that allow Minato to teleport to them as well. The ability is also not just limited to teleporting himself either, he can bring things in contact with him with and teleport away attacks. There has been no indication of a limit to the number of seals Minato can create, and once this formula has been placed on something, somewhere, or someone, it will not disappear, even if the placer of it dies.
Shadow Clone Jutsu
Minato can evenly distribute his chakra and create clones that are just as strong as he is. While the max number of clones he can make hasn’t been explicitly stated or shown, the lowest number of clones he can make is one.
Martial Arts Skill
Minato is highly skilled in close quarters combat, or as it’s more commonly called in the Naruto world, Taijutsu. He has also been trained at Mount Myōboku in the ways of Frog Kata, which is the way that the toad sages there do combat.
Summoning
Due to his connections with the Sage Toads of Mount Miyoboku, Minato is capable of summoning the Chief Toad, Gamabunta, who is strong enough to take on the One Tailed Beast Shukaku and damage Kurama.
Sealing
Minato is capable of multiple forms of sealing jutsu, however his most notable is the Reaper Death Seal, a sealing jutsu that at the cost of his own soul can steal another person's soul as well, all but ensuring victory for him (minus the being dead now part).
Tailed Beast Bomb
The Tailed Beast Bomb (or Ball) is a technique used by the Bijuu (Tailed Beasts) and their jinchuriki. It is a massive orb composed of chakra that can be shot out as a projectile or as a beam attack. Kurama’s Tailed Beast Bombs are especially powerful since half of his chakra is enough to overpower 5 other ones at the same time. They are incredibly powerful and are capable of blowing apart mountains with ease.
Transformations
Bardock
Great Ape
By absorbing enough Blutz Waves either from a natural source such as a full moon or artificially via a Power Ball, Bardock can return to monkey and turn into a Great Ape. Standing in at around 50 feet tall, this behemoth of a form gives Bardock a tenfold increase in power alongside his large size. While this form is quite dangerous, Vegeta’s form having given Goku some trouble in the Saiyan Saga, it has one major weakness in that if the tail is amputated, the Saiyan will revert back to their humanoid form.
Super Saiyan
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The golden form of legend, Bardock is capable of powering up via the famous Super Saiyan transformation. This state is massively superior to the Great Ape, with it having no tail related weakness and fifty times increase to stats in comparison to a mere ten times. The form also increases Bardock’s aggression, making him more prone to be on the offensive.
Minato
Sage Mode
By combining his chakra with natural energy, Minato can tap into Senjutsu and enter Sage Mode. At the cost of his eyes looking goofy he gains an increase in all stats and his jutsus become more powerful. He is also able to use natural energy to his advantage, letting him extend the range of attacks and sense chakra around him. The form does however have a time limit to it and can’t be used for too long. Minato claims to suck at using Sage Mode but this clearly isn’t true given the fact that he’s a “Perfect Sage”, like Naruto is.
Kurama Chakra Mode
The upgraded version of Nine Tails Chakra Mode gained after befriending Kurama. With it Minato enters a glowing orange form with a sick cloak and is able to draw from Kurama’s chakra, this chakra is so potent that to non-jinchurikis it acts like a poison if it gets in them. The form increases all of his stats by a large amount. Given a 1 Tail Cloak was said to increase someone’s chakra by three times, Kurama Chakra Mode could be a twenty seven times increase or even higher by accounting for the other 8 tail increases. The form can be stacked with his Sage Mode, and it also gives him the ability to create Tailed Beast Bombs, form Chakra Arms, and enter Tailed Beast Mode.
Tailed Beast Mode
From his Kurama Chakra Mode Minato can enter his Tailed Beast Mode, forming a giant Kurama avatar with his chakra. With it he gets an increase in power, can create massive Rasengans, and fire the Tailed Beast Bomb.
Feats
Bardock
Overall
Defeated numerous Frieza Soldiers back to back, Chilled, and Gas
Was one of the strongest Saiyans of his time, completing multiple successful conquests
Was able to effectively fight numerous Frieza Soldiers back to back despite severe injuries, showing his incredible tenacity
His son went on to become the savior of the entire universe on multiple occasions
Became the first ever Super Saiyan (maybe, Episode of Bardock is weird)
Rivals Trunks in terms of how much random Dragon Ball related media he’s tossed into
Power
Could blow away many Frieza Soldiers with ease
Can kick away and snap the necks of Chilled’s soldiers with ease
In Super Saiyan he could blast Chilled to outer space
In his base form should be superior to 21st World Tournament Master Roshi, who could destroy the moon with his Kamehameha
At least in his Super Saiyan form, should be comparable to King Vegeta, who could obliterate three planets with a mere wave of his hand (443.252 yottatons of TNT)
Speed
Able to blitz multiple Frieza Soldiers
Should be massively superior to Goku’s younger years. As a kid, Goku was able to ride his Power Pole to the moon in seconds (0.08c)
Goku as a kid was also able to move faster than Tien’s Solar Flare which moves at light speed (21.21c) [Debatable]
Should be massively superior to Saiyan Saga Piccolo, who could launch a blast that hit the moon in seconds (0.54c)
Great Ape and Super Saiyan massively increase his speed just as they do his power (raising 21.21 to 212.1 and 1060.5 C respectively)
Durability
Survived multiple unguarded shots from Frieza Soldiers
Survived Dodoria’s Ki attack
Survived Frieza’s Death Ball that was so strong that it sent him through time wait what the fuck? (4,894.725 yottatons of TNT)
Endured a beating from Chilled in base form without significant injury, and no sold Chilled’s attacks as a Super Saiyan
Endured multiple seemingly lethal blows from Gas
Minato
Overall
Defeated the Raikage and Bee, Obito, Kurama, and thousands of soldiers
Holds the highest score ever recorded on the 1st Stage of Konoha’s Chuunin Exams
Single handedly ended the 3rd Great Ninja War into a peace treaty
Was a crucial player in the 4th Great Ninja War
Regarded as one of the fastest shinobi ever and the strongest dead shinobi at one point
Became the youngest Hokage at just over 21
Mastered his Sage Mode despite him saying that he’s not good at it
Managed to befriend his half of Kurama in the afterlife
Father of Ninja Jesus
Power
Cracked Juubito’s shield alongside Naruto and pushed him back. Juubito is stronger than the Ten-Tails, which can:
Should be far above random shinobi powering up the Chakra Cannon, which obliterated dozens of meteors circling the Earth (561.3 gigatons of TNT per shinobi)
Should be stronger or comparable to Shinobi like Kakashi, Jiraiya, and Hiruzen
Orochimaru scales to the likes of Sasuke, whose Kirin destroyed a mountainside
Comparable to KCM Naruto, who could block and match 5 Tailed Beast Bombs, dispersing large amounts of air as a result (60.368 petatons for each Tailed Beast)
KCM Naruto blitzed and severely injured Kisame, who is stated to have the chakra reserves comparable to a tailed beast, and is said to be “tailed beast without a tail”.
Speed
Reacted to and threw his kunai in tandem with the Raikage’s Lariat, who would have been moving at light speed from centimeters away (86 C) [Debatable]
Should be faster than Kakashi who can outspeed lightning
Reacted to Madara’s truth seeking orbs at close range, which should be faster than Edo Madara reacting to the Raikage’s Lariat (8.56c accounting for Raikage being light speed)
Comparable to KCM Naruto, who dodged the Raikage’s light speed Lariat at close range
KCM should amplify his speed to a similar degree as his power output (27×86=2,322c)
Durability
Could survive for minutes with a giant claw through his chest
Took multiple truth seeking orbs and kept going
Endured Kushina’s abusive tendencies
That’s it, kinda hard to have durability feats when your whole thing is not getting hit
Weaknesses
Bardock
Despite his wealth of experience, Bardock isn’t exactly the most tactical fighter. Often running into battle while already injured or knowing his opponent is superior to him. This alongside his “do or die” personality is what lead him to nearly dying against Gas, and finally dying against Frieza, or not dying because Episode of Bardock indeed is a thing. He’s also not the most versatile fighter, only really having the more simple Dragon Ball power set. No sealing, teleportation, mind reading, soul destruction, etc. Well, he has psychic powers, at the very least.
Minato
While he may be one of the most respected shinobi of all time, Minato still has his limits. His reserves of chakra are finite and completely using up all of his chakra can kill him. Not to mention that some of his stronger Jutsu like his giant portals or the Reaper Death Seal have massive drawbacks.
Summary
Bardock
Advantages:
AP stomps regardless of form
Much better AOE and range
More experience
Scouter can help him keep track of Minato
Marketing Armor makes him impervious to death…
Disadvantages:
Slower
Less mobile
Significantly less versatile
Not as smart or skilled
Reaper Death Seal could take him out
Had to go buy milk
…but also frequently hurts his writing
Minato
“I have died many a death in love, and yet, had I not loved I would never have lived at all."
Advantages:
Faster
Better mobility thanks to teleportation
More versatile
Smarter and more skilled
Reaper Death Seal can make up for the AP gap…
Actually came back with the milk
Political Immunity
Disadvantages:
Any attack from Bardock is strong enough to instantly kill him
Worse overall range and AOE
Less total battle experience
…but there’s a chance Bardock could still evade or interrupt the seal, more details in verdicts
Still took him like two decades to get that milk though
Doesn’t have arms rip bozo
Message from tmk
What up!!!!!! If you're not in our immediate friend circle, you might be confused as to why you are reading a blog about dumb anime instead of Zorro and Robin Hood. We are smaller and don't get as much help or traction as G1 does, so in order to increase the frequency of blog uploads, some people suggested running multiple blogs simultaneously. Because of that, I'm starting a new lineup. The original lineup going forward I will call lineup A, and this will be lineup B. As an additional heads up, we may also make bonus blogs in our spare time, or start new lineups if things go well. I won't be writing a verdict here, though personally I'd probably side Bardock. Anyways, I hope you guys look forward to what we have coming up, thanks to everyone for helping us out.
Verdicts
Blue Igneous
Hey it’s me the funny haha multiplier guy.
I’ve had a lot of history with this MU over the past year, a ton of debates about different factors. So you can bet when I found out there was going to be a blog made for Bardock VS Minato, I wanted to get in on that. The match up itself isn’t anything I’ve been crazy over beforehand and I did use to prefer Bardock fighting Omni-Man, though Nolan already getting on the show and just talking about Bardock VS Minato in general has definitely redirected my interest. Essentially while I do not really want this match up on the show itself, I do still feel it is fun to talk about. So with that introduction out of the way, how exactly do these two interact?
So to start off I feel it is important to distinguish the obvious factors, as in my opinion this debate is focused on more specific things. So to clarify:
Does Bardock one shot? Yes. Even in his base form he scales to stuff like Roshi’s moon bust to King Vegeta’s omnidirectional bitch slap. Thus he is absolutely capable of killing Minato in a single hit, even if it is base Bardock VS Kurama Chakra Mode Minato. The gap is simply too gigantic.
Does Minato have a method to kill Bardock? Yes. While nearly all his offensive jutsu is invalidated by the power gap, and something like turning someone into a frog is not combat reliant and lacks context, Minato does still have a way to kill Bardock: the Reaper Death Seal. Bardock has no defense or resistance to soul based attacks, and considering a tired Minato could use the move effectively on a raging Nine Tails, it’s unlikely superior strength would simply block the move off.
In this match up in particular, what matters most is speed, and that previously mentioned Reaper Death Seal. Speed is needed for Bardock to hit Minato a single time before he decides to use RDS, speed is needed for Minato so he can evade Bardock long enough to decide that he has to kill himself to take down some random guy he just met.
Read that again and you’ll probably know where I’m going with this verdict.
Before actually putting two against each other let’s establish just how fast the two exactly are however. Starting with Bardock, he should blatantly scale to Kid Goku out speeding Tien’s Solar Flare. We know Goku had to out speed the flare to get Roshi’s glasses without being blinded, as even people shading their eyes were blinded by the spreading light. So while the presentation of the feat itself is weird, we know Goku had to have gotten the glasses before the light touched him, so logically the feat should work. This puts Bardock’s base form at 21.21 times the speed of light. But it is hardly that simple. Remember: this feat was performed by Goku as a child, and not even in the final arc of original Dragon Ball. Let’s put how superior Bardock is to this feat into question.
This feat was performed by Goku at the 22nd World Tournament. Elder Demon King Piccolo is capable of blitzing that level of speed as he blitzes Goku in their fight. Goku after the Ultra Divine Water is capable of blitzing that level of speed as he matches Demon King Piccolo’s massively superior younger form. Goku at the 23rd World Tournament is capable of blitzing that level of speed as after removing his weights he’s massively superior to a post Korin Training Tien, who would at worst be relative to post UDW Goku. Raditz is capable of blitzing that level of speed as he can blitz both Goku and Piccolo from 4 years after the 23rd World Tournament at the same time. Nappa is capable of blitzing that level of speed as despite Piccolo surpassing Raditz during the year long preparation for the Saiyan attack, Nappa could speed past him. And finally, Bardock at worst should be matching that level of speed as he was already approaching a power level of ten thousand at the start of his special, a power level greatly superior to Nappa’s. Power levels are not always the most accurate measure of comparison of stats of course, but when gaps are very massive between numbers, scaling characters should be fine at that point.
If you kept track, you’ll know Bardock should be capable of blitzing the mentioned Solar Flare feat a whopping five times over at worst. Keep in mind there are some minor training increases scattered amongst those blitzes in addition, so even what I just mentioned was underselling things. But of course this is not the limit, as Bardock can apply multipliers on top of this. Great Ape is referenced multiple times as a ten times increase, Super Saiyan a fifty times one. Super Saiyan being the bigger increase though naturally makes it more important to talk about. That being the exact increase is consistent across Dragon Ball media. Obviously it is the stated increase in guidebooks and Daizenshu, but is also consistent with the form being massively above Kaioken times twenty. The form is also constantly shown to increase speed just as it does raw power, with characters using Super Saiyan allowing them to blitz characters they could not before, like with Goku against half of Frieza’s power on Namek or Bardock himself against Chilled. We also know the power and speed increase must be proportional, considering how guidebooks show it brings Goku’s power level on Namek from three million to one hundred and fifty million. We know power levels are more so an average of stats, as Goku with a power level of ninety thousand was still faster than Ginyu’s one hundred twenty thousand, with Ginyu being much stronger. Thus for Goku’s power level to go from three million to one hundred and fifty million exactly like that, the increase must have been proportional for his strength as well as his speed.
With that tangent clarifying things out of the way, we can apply the Super Saiyan increase to the Solar Flare feat to get Super Saiyan Bardock’s speed to about 1050.6 times the speed of light. Remember, base Bardock would upscale the Solar Flare feat massively, so what the Super Saiyan form would be multiplying off of would actually be much higher than this number. There are other feats you can argue that would get higher as well that Bardock would scale to, like Goku using a kamehameha to escape a sun, but things like that are more debatable and not as concrete. They are also not necessary here, for reasons I will explain later.
Moving on to Minato’s speed, his most impressive feat would be him blitzing the Raikage. During their interaction in the 3rd Great Ninja War, Minato is able to move a Kunai into the air to set up for a later counter attack. Looking at how far the Kunai moved in comparison to Raikage’s light speed lariat, this would place base Minato’s speed at roughly 86 times the speed of light. Personally this feat is fine in my opinion, the guidebook statement saying the Raikage moves at light speed does not specify it is only the older Raikage, and more so talks about the move generally. So this feat should be concrete. Also this feat was performed before Minato became Hokage, so naturally as years passed he’d likely train some more and thus get a decent bit faster. So with that in mind, Minato is at a good starting point compared to base Bardock.
As mentioned before, the Kurama Chakra Mode could have as much as a twenty seven times multiplicative increase. Applying this to Minato’s previously mentioned speed, he could end up at an incredible speed of 2322 times the speed of light. Directly comparing that to Bardock, that results in approximately a 2.18953323904 times speed advantage for the ninja. Considering his mobility advantage with mastery of the Flying Raijin technique, Minato seems to have a seemingly minor but actually very useful speed advantage right?
To quote a certain Mario capped garbage man, who quoted a certain Homestuck fan:
The twenty seven times multiplier argument for Minato has some holes in it when looked at more closely. The issue presents itself when looking at Kakashi’s exact statement again. He says in regard to how much the Kyuubi Chakra he received amped his Kamui, and I quote, “...I think it’s at least three times more powerful…”. The issue is that this is the increase Kakasi specifically receives, it is how much he specifically is increased by. Kakashi himself at this point in the series does not match Minato’s peak speed feat, as this statement comes not long after Raikage states KCM Version 1 Naruto matches Minato’s historic speed. Said KCM Naruto being above Kakashi in speed, of course.
To put this into context, think of what KCM’s actual increase is like this:
You have a box with one banana in it (Kakashi’s box), and another box with ten bananas (Minato). You then add two bananas (the Kurama Chakra) to each box. Kakashi’s box now has three bananas, which is three times what he had before. Minato’s box on the other hand now has twelve bananas, which while more than what it was previously, is only 1.2 times more than what he used to be. Essentially, Minato should be getting a much smaller amp than Kakashi did from Kurama’s Chakra and thus his stat is not directly multiplied. Kurama’s Chakra being an addition based increase makes more sense in the first place anyways, Kurama Chakra mode is not some special mutation like Super Saiyan is, it is adding one pool of Chakra to another. I’m not saying KCM is not a giant stat increase, it obviously is, but I heavily disagree with the increase being multiplicative.
And to quickly explain why this multiplier does not work but Super Saiyan’s does: SSJ is not adding one pool of energy to another like KCM as it is specifically like a mutation, and the form has always been above Kaioken which is a multiplier so therefore it cannot be a flat increase as if it was it would have eventually been surpassed by Kaioken.
With all that information in mind, the speed difference now becomes 1050.6 C versus 86 C, with each character massively upscaling those numbers. With these numbers in mind, the speed difference is instead 12.2162790698 in Bardock’s favor. Heck, Minato being at this level means Bardock does not even need the Solar Flare feat to have relative speed. For instance, even earlier in original Dragon Ball, Goku uses the Power Pole to travel to the moon and back, with this feat reaching 0.08 C, which would get a ten times boost from Great Ape since Goku surpassed his Ape form from the first arc by the end of OG Dragon Ball, and then the Super Saiyan amp is attached, getting Bardock an easy 40 C. And if you are using the Solar Flare feat, considering his much more accessible win condition, this might as well make the match up a stomp.
But for the sake of argument, let’s say Bardock gets no significant upscaling from 1050.6 C. Let’s say Minato’s 27 C multiplier is legitimate, and he’s at 2322 C. With Minato being a bit over twice as fast, having superior mobility and intellect, and again having his durability negation option in the form of Reaper Death Seal, should he take the win now?
Refer to the image I posted above.
It is again important to emphasize that any attack Bardock lands is fatal. Any stray Ki Blast, any minor tap of his finger, and Minato is going to drop dead. And looking at Minato’s usage of the Reaper Death Seal again, it is severely unlikely that Minato would result to using the move for most of the fight. The move is a last resort that results in his death and is very high risk. Granted if after a long battle he deems Bardock too powerful of a threat, he is likely to use it. But again, it is going to take him a while to decide that. This means that Minato has to avoid every single attack Bardock does in the fight. A single one touches him, he is done. Going off of just over a two times speed advantage and his Flying Raijin, Minato has to play the most perfect dodging game of his life for a long enough time to accept the fact he has to end his own life. Whereas, again, Bardock just needs to land one hit. Even a mere shockwave will do, and Dragon Ball characters use those quite frequently. Or heck, if at any point Bardock decides to release a giant battlefield covering blast akin to King Vegeta, Minato has no way to avoid that. Simply put it is very unrealistic to say that Minato will be able to stay in the game long enough to use his ace in the hole even with a speed advantage on his side.
But even IF Minato were to decide to use the Reaper Death Seal, his victory is STILL unlikely. In the two times the technique has been used, the user was left vulnerable initially while activating the jutsu. While Minato could use some shadow clones to maybe cause a distraction, landing the move would still be complicated. And in the case Hiruzen used the technique against Orochimaru, the process was made more difficult due to Hiruzen being very tired because of their long battle. Not to mention Orochimaru was still somewhat able to move. While he was prohibited from using Chakra, which could be a point used to argue Bardock cannot use Ki while under the jutsu’s effect, he could still move his finger which resulted in him stabbing Hiruzen with a telekinetic sword. Thus you could argue Bardock could quite literally point at the ground very very hard resulting in a shockwave that instantly kills Minato. Again, the power gap is that massive. So in short, while it is still definitely possible Minato could pull off the Reaper Death Seal, it STILL is not a guaranteed win condition, even if Bardock is not guaranteed to counter it after it lands.
To answer some more minor questions before I summarize things:
Could Minato just get some shadow clones to use the Reaper Death Seal like Hiruzen did so he has no risk using it or even spamming it? No, when Hiruzen had his shadow clones use the technique, he still had to offer his soul to the reaper first. Thus Minato still needs to decide to end his life before clones use the technique. Also I want to add that when the clones used the move on the mind controlled Hokage, said Hokage hardly resisted the attack as they accepted the situation. Whereas when Orochimaru was hit, he was resilient and fought back. Thus it is unlikely a clone could pull off the Reaper Death Seal on Bardock anyways.
Could Minato’s Sage Mode getting nature energy passively help Minato stay at peak condition all fight so he is more likely to pull off the Reaper Death Seal? While nature energy would help him stay resilient, Bardock is a very offensive fighter that would not exactly give Minato breathing room. Plus Bardock getting passively stronger in the fight would make Minato’s rate of stamina use also go up. Thus him gaining nature energy might as well be a moot point.
Would Kurama Chakra’s poison be able to put Bardock down? While Bardock admittedly has no poison resistance, it is explained within the Naruto series that the poison needs to enter someone’s body to take effect, as it is said it was affecting Sakura because it entered her open wounds. Considering Minato is too weak in comparison to Bardock to inflict damage at all, it is impossible that he could capitalize on this. And before you say it, no, a scar is not an open wound.
And thus to conclude, while Minato certainly has arguments to win the fight, Bardock’s win conditions are simply much more simple and to the point, relying on less assumptions. While the 4th Hokage is certainly impressive, the low class Saiyan simply has the stats needed to guarantee his victory. Minato simply flew raijinto his demise, just Saiyan.
The winner is Bardock.
On a final note, I’d like to thank TMK for giving me the opportunity to work on this blog. Always like talking about Dragon Ball stuff after all.
And I would also like to apologize to TMK for once again making a long as fuck verdict, bad habit of mine.
Caden_Da_Monkay
Hey y’all, I’m Caden and this gonna be my first blog so thanks to TMK for letting me on and hopefully I don’t mess this up too much.
Most people think this matchup is just clear cut and dry cuz “dragon ball vs naruto”. But that couldn’t be more wrong, this match is quite complex and has a good amount of layers to it. So we’ll start with the simplest layer, stats.
Now it’s pretty obvious that Bardock is stomping Minato in AP and Durability as everyone in these verdicts will tell you, even with Minato’s best feats he’s not touching the planet busting power of Bardock. On the other hand however, Minato is taking the edge in speed. He’s a little above 2x faster then Bardock and while normally that wouldn’t be a big difference, because of Minato’s vastly superior mobility this makes it so that Bardock’s normal hand to hand and ranged attacks are unlikely to ever connect, especially given Minato can just teleport them away. So now we just have a debate that looks like this:
While Minato’s superior speed is useful in lasting longer, it’s not going to help him actually hurt Bardock. Which is where the real meat of this debate comes in, the abilities. Minatoes abilities are more varied and better suited to counter Bardocks then vice versa, good examples of such being how he can outnumber Bardock with summons and clones and him being able to teleport away attacks. But there’s one specific ability of his that makes this a real debate, the reaper death seal. To put it simply, if Minato manages to land this jutsu, he wins.
Bardock has no way of resisting soul based attacks and this jutsu would be capable of killing him. But more importantly, he has zero way of stopping it once it lands. Now one might point to when Orochimaru countered the reaper death seal against Hiruzen as an example of how Bardock could stop it. However there’s two very important details with Orochimaru stopping it. 1. He was only able to move slightly and 2. He used a non jutsu attack. Both of these are important because they shut down Bardock's chances of stopping this attack. With the first it means he isn’t gonna be able to just walk towards Minato to stop him, at most he’ll be able to move his arms and legs a little bit, and while he could possibly pull of a punch or kick with that, Minato can use the reaper death seal from a far distance, shutting down that counter option. More important though is the second, the reaper death seal has been shown to disable chakra as shown by how Orochimaru could not perform jutsu while under it. This is big because since we are treating chakra and ki as roughly equivalent, Bardock would not be able to perform any ki attacks while under the jutsu, shutting down that possibility as well. With both melee and ki attacks unusable, Bardock would have zero way of stopping his soul being removed.
What that leaves us with is that both characters can end the fight with a single move, the question is who is going to land theirs first? And in that area I have to side with Minato. His biggest advantages here are obviously the superior speed but also the superior skill. As compared to a more brutish fighter like Bardock, Minato is much more likely to play things tactically and prioritize staying out of harms way. His specialty is dodging after all, and with a wider arsenal, a numbers advantage via clones and summons, and the ability to send away Bardock's large attacks, I see him being able to outlast Bardock for most of the fight. Plus with the insane amount of chakra KCM2 gives him, he’s not running out anytime soon. But outlasting Bardock would mean nothing if he doesn’t resort to the reaper death seal at some point, and while it might sound strange for Minato to just throw away his life, it’s what he’d be likely to do. Take when the nine tails was attacking the leaf village, Minato can tell when he’s outclassed and the nine tails definitely had him there, so what does he do? Almost immediately resort to the one move he knows will stop it, that being the seal. With the scenario being similar here, I see no reason Minato wouldn’t see it fit to resort to the seal, and given the advantages I listed earlier he definitely has the means to pull it off and end the fight with it. Bardock obviously has his chances at winning given all he needs is one hit, but against Minato he just isn’t likely to get in that one hit before things get dangerous for him.
So all in all, while Bardock would seem the more likely winner via just AP stomping Minato into the ground. Minato has everything he needs to outlast, counter, and eventually kill Bardock.
Bardock's chances were sealed, and in the end got Minatowned.
Rinato Uzumaki
Play AI: The Somnium Files
Dis is a pretty neat match innit, thanks to TMK for bringing me onto this.
Let’s get the obvious out of the way: Bardock AP stomps Minato to the ground. At bare minimum, his Super Saiyan form should be comparable to King Vegeta destroying several planets, requiring energy up to thousands of yottatons. No scaling Minato has come close to that level of power, even scaling him to the Chibaku Tensei creation of Hagoromo and Hamura. However, strength alone isn’t a deciding factor here, given Minato’s several other options and abilities he brings to the table. In particular, the Flying Raijin technique gives him way better maneuverability and defensive options. Bardock’s flight is useful, but Minato’s extremely efficient with his kunai’s and teleportation in combat, as shown in his fights with the 4th Raikage and Obito. This allows him to play keep away against Bardock for a while and even teleport his Ki blasts, sucking up his projectiles either some place distant or right on top of Bardock. As for other abilities, Minato has Kurama’s Chakra, and thus should share the same abilities Naruto has shown with it, including poisoning the target. Should Minato land this, Bardock is getting weaker and weaker as the fight progresses while Minato can still play keep away and dodge most of his attacks, which is pretty crucial here
Skill and intelligence is also in Minato’s favor. Even by the standards of his world, he’s commonly acknowledged as a fighting genius and shows it, being capable of deducing enemy techniques after seeing them just once, and his time during Third Shinobi War as a child and training under Jiraiya makes him no slouch in the skill department. Bardock is far from dumb, but in comparison he’s more of a brute, really just charging in without thinking compared to Minato’s more tactical approach in combat.
Next up is speed: In my opinion, Minato is much faster. While the 86c calc against the 4th Raikage is fairly debatable due to Ay (possibly) not being lightspeed at the time, that’s not to downplay the Yellow Flash’s speed at all. Even in base as an Edo (making him weaker than normal), he was capable of reacting to Six Paths Madara TSO’s. This is extremely notable as even Edo Madara could react to Raikage’s lightspeed Lariat at around 8.56 times light speed. That’s a pretty decent scaling chain, given characters like Juubito are greater than Madara by his own admission, and Juubidara is stated to be >> Juubito. And this is without stacking Minato’s Sage Mode or KCM mode on top of him being an Edo at the time, making him unquantifiably faster than all of this. You can even push him higher if you use Gaara’s sand intercepting the Raikage’s Lariat when he was less than a meter away from Sasuke, reaching up to double digit times faster than light, and Edo Madara dodged that sand as well.
Comparatively, Bardock himself doesn’t really have that good of a scaling chain. The Solar Flare feat isn’t really that solid in my opinion. There’s no real proof Goku moved right after the flash went off, and it’s certainly likely he moved FTE to grab the glasses before Tien activated the technique. Heck, the first time we see him after Tien activates the technique in the anime, he already has the glasses on. Bardock’s best scaling would be to Piccolo’s moon blast, a bit over half the speed of light. Alongside the 50x SSJ multiplier, this would make Bardock around 27 times light speed, a bit faster than Minato should we accept it. However, even a multiplier game isn’t a surefire victory for the rebellious Saiyan. 7th Gate Lee and Guy should be fairly comparable to each other, and 7th Gate Lee threw a kunai fast enough to reach 8th Gate Guy’s location before Madara’s TSO’s could. This could be used to argue 7th Gate Guy would at minimum partially downscale from Juubi Madara’s speed, which is faster than 8.5c. The 8 Gates increase one's power and speed by tens of times, making 8th Gate Guy roughly around 85c with multipliers. Given Minato could both react to the TSO’s, turn his back around so they could hit him, and teleport out before 8th Gate Guy could make any significant movement, it seems fair to say he’s at least around that same level of speed…in base. The gap gets further and further with Sage Mode and KCM stat increases. Ultimately, both with or without multipliers, Minato is holding a great speed edge over Bardock.
With a solid speed and mobility advantage, this gives Minato the chance to utilize his biggest win-con: The Reaper Death Seal. Once Minato lands this attack, it’s a surefire victory, as it almost completely immobilizes the target and prevents them from moving and attacking. Most noticeably, it prevents them from using any Jutsu. This is pretty huge since Jutsu/Chakra share similar functions to ki in both attack and nature (natural life force energies inside someone used for attacks), meaning Bardock won’t be able to fire any Ki blasts once tagged by the Reaper. Even if this results in Minato’s death, Bardock is the one dying first, and that still counts as a win.
Bardock’s power is certainly astonishing, and I can see why people think him just landing a Ki blast is a more reliable win condition. Ultimately though, I believe the 4th Hokage’s combination of speed, skill, and abilities are just barely enough to score a win more times than not.
I don’t have a pun for this fuck you
LandonTalksALot
Hey y’all, Walmart Employee Trying To Maintain Any Semblance Of Sanity here. Thanks to TMK for letting me lend my objectively invaluable opinion to this blog!
Alright, self-deprecating jokes aside (I’ve had a rough couple of work days, folks), I do think that this is an interesting matchup from a debate standpoint. We have Dragon Ball vs Naruto, a series combination that, while iconic, isn’t exactly the most fair. But this matchup spices things up a little by having two characters that are more even in terms of their capabilities, so it’s a lot more interesting of a debate than say, these two’s sons going at it. So who wins?
Well, for starters, let’s talk stats just to show that this isn’t a simple one-shot blitz for our boy Bardock. It should really be no secret at this point that he easily takes the strength advantage. By scaling to King Vegeta, who was able to destroy three planets with just a flick of the wrist, he should be well within Large Planet-Dwarf Star levels of power. Minato, on the other hand, his best AP comes from cracking Juubito’s shield, and thanks to a scaling chain to the Ten Tails, Minato can match Planet levels of power, with some possible amps with his own KCM. So with Dwarf Star vs Planet, that’s a decently large strength lead for our boy Bardock to start off with, but speed is where things get a bit more interesting.
Both Bardock and Minato should be well within lightspeed capabilities thanks to the former being superior to Tien and the latter having his feat with the Raikage. However, Minato actually scales higher than Bardock; a significant amount higher, even. Even if we added on those god-forsaken multipliers onto Super Saiyan and KCM Minato respectively, Minato would actually be way faster than anything Bardock could scale to.
So to recap, we have a character who has a pretty big AP advantage, while the other has a pretty big speed advantage. It’s also worth mentioning that with Super Saiyan, Bardock would end up being faster than base Minato and thus would blitz and one-shot, but for the sake of argument, I’m gonna give Minato the benefit of the doubt and say that they would go into their super forms at roughly the same time, in which we would be back to square one.
And this is where things start getting a bit difficult for the monkey warrior himself. All he really needs to do is hit Minato once, and he should just win. However, Minato is pretty damn versatile in comparison, having some pretty good mobility options that could keep him away from his opponent for a good amount of time. Plus, with his sensing (Ki and Chakra are practically the same thing, so he should be able to use it on Bardock in the same way Bardock could detect Minato’s power level with the Scouter), he would know not to go for a direct confrontation. After all, Minato pretty regularly fights characters that are stronger than him, but can still get by with his wits and speed rather than brute force, so Bardock shouldn’t be anything different, right? Well, the problem with that is that it isn’t some stronger guy Minato’s facing here: it’s the strongest guy he’s ever fought, one that, again, could kill him with one punch.
Not only that, but while Minato’s methods of dodging Bardock are useful, he doesn’t have a whole lot of options to kill Bardock from long ranges. Shurikens and kunai are dead weight here, and any of his Jutsus, Chakra Natures, summoning and what have you, aren’t going to do major damage to Bardock since he’s so much stronger. The only real thing in Minato’s arsenal he has to take a win here is ripping out his opponent’s soul with the Reaper Death Seal, but even it has its own set of pros and cons.
On one hand, with Minato being much faster, he could certainly get the move off quickly enough before Bardock could react, and his intelligence would mean that he could come up with a plan to catch him off guard. However, all this comes with a few caveats. For one, given how dangerous the move is for Minato, he likely would only do it as a last resort. Plus, RDS uses Chakra, and by the time he decides he needs to use it, he’s likely not going to have enough to use it. And ultimately, I feel like it’s far more likely that Bardock gets that lucky hit than Minato not getting hit at all for an extended period of time. Bardock’s basically gonna be chasing Minato the entire fight or spamming Ki blasts and AoE moves, so while Minato is faster, he’s gonna need to be on his toes constantly with very little room to breathe.
So where exactly am I going with all this? Well, with the flaws in RDS and the fact that Minato can’t really afford to get hit once by him at all, I think Bardock can take it more often than not. It’ll be a very difficult fight for him, for sure, but his win-con is just more reliable and realistic than Minato’s, which is a lot less straightforward than Bardock’s. This is a really close matchup, and I do think that Minato can win a few times if he can get that RDS off. But like Death Battle themselves say, I can’t exactly give him the W via specific circumstances, and for me, Bardock can get that one hit more times than Minato can pull off the RDS.
The fight won’t be over in a flash, but I think Bardock will have the raw strength needed to scout out a win.
Waluigi
“Erm…what the scallop?”
First time doing one of these things so thanks to TMK for letting me help out here. Hi, I’m Waluigi and I’m here to give my expert opinion on this matchup. Everything I say will be factually correct and true (maybe).
At first glance this matchup seems pretty cut and dry. One would assume that the Dragon Ball character just blows up the planet and that’s an easy W, but in this case it’s a lot more complicated once you start to delve deeper into what would realistically happen.
Yes, Bardock could just nuke the planet and kill Minato and everyone else on Earth then and there, but c’mon, we wouldn’t be doing this blog if we just had him blow up the planet cuz he feels like it.
Brushing that aside, who do I think wins? I could tell you and just leave it at that but that’s no fun, so let’s get into stats and how they compare.
Obviously Bardock is stronger than Minato, I don’t think anyone’s gonna refute that and I don’t think I even need to explain why. I’m sure you’ve all seen the funny King Vegeta gif, and Bardock should be comparable to that. But just because he’s stronger doesn’t mean he’ll just be able to effortlessly slap Minato around though. The Yellow Flash is one quick bastard who’s main gimmick is teleporting to avoid getting hit and catching opponents by surprise. And while Bardock isn’t exactly slow, Minato is kinda just on another level of speed in comparison, letting him be able to evade just about any attack Bardock can use since Minato’s made teleportation seals all across the world and could easily go far away and back in the blink of an eye.
Now I get what you might be asking. “But if Bardock’s a lot stronger then how can Minato even win?” And the answer to this is simple, yet complicated.
Minato’s only real ways of winning are taking Bardock’s soul and killing him via Reaper Death Seal, or possibly poisoning him via Kurama’s chakra. I’ll address the poisoning since that’s easier to cover.
The poisoning only works via entering the body via already existing wounds. And since Minato is quite a bit weaker than Bardock, his attacks won’t have enough power to really wound Bardock like that.
Now Reaper Death Seal is indeed a way that Minato can win. However, this is not a tactic Minato would typically resort to, and would only be an incredibly dangerous last ditch effort to snag a victory. The second problem that arises with it is if Minato would even have enough chakra left over to perform the jutsu in the first place. But on the flip side, he’s definitely fast enough to pull off all the hand seals necessary and to get in close so he can steal Bardock’s soul.
In Bardock’s case, one good hit will be more than enough to outright one shot Minato, but since he’s a lot slower in comparison that’s easier said than done. So Bardock’s best chance at trying to hit Minato would be to just do heavy AoE attacks. But again, kinda hard to do if your opponent keeps teleporting out of the way of your attacks.
Despite the speed gap though, I think it’s far more likely that Bardock manages to get in a lucky hit that kills Minato before Minato can do RDS. As fast as Minato is, he can’t play the waiting game forever and will eventually need to get in close. Granted he does have options for keeping himself at a distance thanks to his KCM, but he won’t be able to do any significant damage to Bardock unless he gets up close and personal, and unfortunately for the 4th Hokage that’s just Bardock’s specialty.
So all in all, you could definitely make an argument for Minato winning, but I’m siding Bardock due to him having a much more reliable win con that can be pulled off far easier than Minato’s.
I’m just saiyan that Naruto’s dad takes the L here, unfortunately. The winner is Bardock.
Team Bardock- Blue Igneous, LandonTalksALot, Waluigi
Team Minato- Caden_Da_Monkay, Rinato Uzumaki
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Nice prediction blog, Guys
ReplyDeleteWait so where's the other blogs? What are they called?
ReplyDelete