Bill VS Discord

 

“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” 

- Aristotle


Bill Cipher, the Nightmare Realm’s Dream Demon from Gravity Falls.


Discord, Equestria’s Lord of Chaos from My Little Pony.


The laws of reality are something that we all must answer to. What we can do, how we do it, and what obstacles stand in the way of various accomplishments. But for beings like these two, there are no such laws dictating their deeds. Only their morals and the goals that they choose to follow.


The Dream Demon and the Chaos Lord both laugh in the face of physics and reality, but for being so similar, there are few beings so different. Both seek to change their worlds in a new era of weirdness and chaos, but to what ends will they bring it about? And what will become of the world after their battle? Will Bill Cipher succeed in liberating the world and ushering in a new era of partying, or does Discord truly wield the most powerful magic of all in friendship? The fabric of worlds will rip and tear when these two collide in a clash of chaos, but in the end, only one of these supernatural beings will have the powers needed to win this DEATH BATTLE!


What? Were you expecting some other blog? Well too bad! Things are gonna get WEIRD.

Before We Begin

This blog has had a very diverse group of opinions on these characters and how their powers should work - as such, every argument made for them will be included in this blog. This does not mean that everything is accepted as consensus - more details regarding their specific capabilities will be in the verdicts section. 

Background

Bill Cipher

♫ "We'll meet again. Don't know where, don't know when. But I know we'll meet again some sunny day!" ♫


Ancient prophecies and prehistoric cave paintings tell the story of an all-powerful figure, one that can grant boons as easily as he can raze civilizations. They say he watched his home dimension burn to ashes, by his own hand, no less. They say he’s a muse, willing to share information on those that seek him out, and choosing one brilliant mind every century to inspire.


But to Stanford Pines, genius inventor and paranormal investigator of Gravity Falls, Bill Cipher was nothing but a true demon. But it wasn't always like this, Stanford once called Bill a friend making a deal where as Stan slept Bill would take over his body and continue his work However, Bill quickly overstepped and used his control for more nefarious purposes. Bill tried to trick Stan into creating a portal to The Nightmare Realm which would let its beast ravage earth in an armageddon of weirdness. A Weirdmageddon if you will. Stanford managed to stop the portal after finding out Bill tricked him. Bill was cut off for now but if the gate were to reopen and a rift was broken he could make his plan come to life and cause the end of our world. 


Many years after these events Stanford would be sent through the portal, his brother Stanley would take over his base of operations in Gravity Falls Oregon, turning it into a tourist trap followed by Ford's great grandchildren coming to stay with Stanley for a summer. Overtime Dipper and Mable Pines (Ford's grandchildren) would uncover the mysteries of Ford's work and gather the journals in which he held said work. Many parties would fight over these journals, one of them being Gideon Gleeful who used one of Ford's journals to summon Bill back into our world as a spiritual form. Upon his return Bill would cause chaos to the Pines family by trying to mess with Stanley's mind and steal the body of Dipper none of them being a success. This was until Stanley obtained all 3 journals and fired up the portal once more. This brought Stanford back to our reality, but it also gave Bill the ability to complete his plan again and bring the Nightmare Realm to ours.


Stanford would try his hardest to create defenses against Bill and prepare for his invasion if Bill were to complete his plan as the rift that held Bill's army off became unstable and started to crack. Around this time summer was coming to a close and Mabel was beginning to feel like she would never see her brother again as he was just given an apprenticeship under Stanford. In a panic Mabel grabbed the backpack that held the rift instead of her own. This would go horribly as Bill (Who has taken control over the mind of time traveling agent Blendin Blandin) would trick Mable into giving him the rift which Bill shattered. Upon shattering this would allow Bill to gain a physical form and summon his Nightmare army to "party" and wreak havoc, chaos and weirdness on earth.


Once Bill gained his physical form he trapped Mabel in a dream world, transformed the town of Gravity Falls into a nightmarish version of itself and captured most of its residence including Stanford. He even killed the intergalactic Time Police. All who remained in Gravity Falls formed a rebellion to fight Bill but that did very little to stop Bill only slowing him down slightly. The only thing that was able to hold Bill back was Gravity Falls natural law of weirdness magnetism. The only way Bill could break this barrier would be getting the information on how to break it from Ford. Eventually Bill was finally able to convince Stanford to give up the way to escape after threatening harm to his family but all of this was a trick. During the events of Weirdmageddon Ford made up with his brother Stanley and the two swapped clothing trapping Bill in the empty headed Stanley's mind. Bill, realizing it was too late to escape, begged Stanley to make a deal with him but Stanley denied as Ford used a memory eraser gun on Stanley to erase his memories along with Bill.


In the end Bill was defeated and the town was set back to normal but nothing could truly ever be the same after experiencing Bill's chaos. Bill brought the entire town to its knees and if it wasn't for the crafty Pines family he could have ended the world as we know it spreading insanity and weirdness around the world as its three sided god and who knows, Stanley's memories returned, why couldn't Bill?

Discord

(“I’m not afraid of you anymore! You will turn everyone back the way they were before you came back! These ponies are my true friends.”)


Equestria. It is the land of magic. Friendship. Harmony. The righteous will fight to defend their land, and the evils who seek all magic will surely be defeated by the magic of friendship. Many great heroes have risen up to defend all that is good in the world, from the Princess of the Sun, Celestia, the legendary Twilight Sparkle, or new defenders like the Alicorn Sunny Starscout. But there are those who were once twisted and dark that have also seen the light, turning for the better and joining the ranks of Equestria’s allies. And of them all, few are as legendary and noteworthy as the Lord of Chaos, Discord.


Discord is essentially an enemy of order, not inherently evil. But his chaotic and mischievous ways were a problem for the peaceful denizens of Equestria. This was made even worse when Discord was manipulated by another powerful force. Cosmos, the Lord of Malice. Cosmos unleashed havoc on Equestria and many other universes across reality, with Discord aiding her in his own playful way. But his morals were stronger than Cosmos realized, and she crossed a line when she began trying to kill innocents. Rescuing those endangered by her deeds, Discord betrayed Cosmos and alerted the two mightiest ponies in Equestria to her presence. The Royal Sisters, Celestia and Luna. Cosmos was banished for a long time, and to prevent further pain or the risk of a fool attempting to bring her back, Discord took blame for her crimes. Eventually, he would clash with Celestia and Luna once more, and they would be ready. Wielding the all-powerful Elements of Harmony, Discord was defeated, and turned to stone for a thousand years.


Over time, Discord was largely forgotten. Eventually, Celestia stood as the last of the ancient legends to rule over Equestria, raising a new generation of heroes to wield the Elements of Harmony. Led by Celestia’s own pupil Twilight Sparkle, the Elements of Harmony would gain new bearers. And just in time, for Discord would soon escape his stone confinements at long last to unleash chaos upon all life once again. But try as he might, even when he managed to break the bearers of the Elements apart and crush their friendships, it was all for naught. Celestia had thought ahead, and Twilight Sparkle succeeded in righting his wrongs. Discord was defeated, and returned to his stone prison by the magic of friendship.


But this time, it was not his end.


Not too long after, Celestia opted to take a chance and give Discord a shot at redemption, like her beloved sister Luna had succeeded in. To do so, she selected the bearer of the Element of Kindness to try and bring Discord around to good, the pegasus Fluttershy. Despite some initial difficulties, Fluttershy succeeded. Discord and Fluttershy formed a genuine friendship. The ponies of Equestria no longer had to fear Discord’s chaos, and Discord no longer had to fear the Elements being used on him.


For a time though, there were still difficulties. Discord had some insecurities over friendship with his old enemies, and his diminished ability to make chaos. As such, he would ultimately betray his friends for the evil Lord Tirek, aiding him in taking the magic of Equestria. But Tirek betrayed him in turn, stealing his Chaos Magic and taking him prisoner. In that instance, he saw who his true friends truly were, as Twilight Sparkle sacrificed her own magic to set him free. Following that, Discord would give Twilight the last key she needed to defeat Tirek, making up for his misdeed, and he would remain an ally of harmony forever after that.


Discord would still have his ups and downs, occasionally getting a bit too mischievous for his own good and making playful havoc. But he also more than proved his worth as a reformed being. He played a large role in saving Equestria’s rulers and the Element bearers from the Changeling Queen Chrysalis, alongside fellow reformed villains Starlight Glimmer, Trixie Lulamoon, and Thorax. He even did battle against Cosmos one last time when she returned to Equestria and stole the power of the Alicorns. This time he defeated her for good, permanently destroying her power and locking her away on the moon. And when the time came, he was instrumental in Twilight Sparkle’s final battle against her enemies, and convincing her she was ready to rule Equestria. Together with Celestia and Luna, he accomplished the final defeat of the villains, turning Chrysalis, Tirek, and Cozy Glow to stone in their last judgment.


Ultimately, Discord proved to be the hero Celestia thought he could be. He was instrumental to saving Equestria many times, and a good friend to the ponies he came to care for. His bond with Fluttershy grew to be quite strong, and he was always there to protect her in a time of need. Equestria turned out to be a safer and happier place with Discord on their side, and he finally had the peaceful and happy life that he had once long ago. It is a testament to the might of the magic of friendship, for harmony cannot be overcome, and the Lord of Chaos stands always ready to defend it and the ponies who live in the magical world of Equestria.


Abilities

Bill Cipher

Dream Demon / Flatlander Physiology 

Bill hails from a two-dimensional universe, meaning that he exists without any sort of depth. He makes up for this by having the innate ability to invade the dreams of others through contracts, projecting himself into unconscious minds. It’s only after he obtains physical form via the rift’s destruction that he sheds this dimensional restriction, becoming fully three-dimensional and taking over the town.



Reality Warping 

Famous for changing reality to whatever he pleases, he finds great pleasure in his own twisted form of fun and entertainment commonly referring to himself as a “master of chaos”.


Time Manipulation / Time Travel

The dream demon has proven himself to be capable of manipulating the flow of time in a manner of different ways. He can slow, stop, reverse, and nullify it, all of which can be done as simply as waving one’s hand. In addition, he’s also killed the Time Baby, a representation of time from the year 207̃012, giving him control over “time itself,” in his own words


Along with manipulating time, Bill knows the ins and outs of time travel after spending some time in the head of time agent Blendin Blandin. Since he was able to appear to Blendin in the far future before going back in time to trick Mabel into breaking the rift, it’s clear that he is somewhat exempt from the flow of time as a whole, able to pop in and out of time at certain points.


Shapeshifting

Bill is capable of transforming into any form he pleases, particularly enjoys turning into his opponents greatest fear.


Space / Gravity Manipulation 

When gravity falls, and earth becomes sky, fear the beast with just one eye.”


Bill can teleport and create any object he so pleases, even capable of shifting gravity just by tipping his hat. He claims in Weirdmageddon Part 3, that he has an overall control over space. 


Transmutation / Petrification 

One of Bill’s most frequent abilities; he’s capable of turning living beings such as Ford into gold and citizens into stone, whether it be with an energy blast or a single gesture. His weirdness waves are also capable of turning Soos’ grandma into a chair, several Gravity Falls residents into tapestries, and many other odd transformations.


Telekinesis 

Bill is capable of lifting objects and people with a thought. He’s telekinetically choked both Ford and Stan, lifted the Journals with a thought, and lifted his castle upon gaining his physical form.


Telepathy / Mind Manipulation

Bill has the ability to manipulate minds in all sorts of ways, he’s capable of reading minds, entering dreams to watch peoples dreams as if he was there, claims to be able to destroy memories, and even capable of turning people insane with his bubbles of pure madness. He was also able to completely shut down the minds of Wendy, who was able to resist going insane from one of the weirdness bubbles, and McGucket, who is completely immune to the mind altering effects of the memory gun.


Duplication

Bill can duplicate clones of himself with seemingly no limit. He did this when entering Ford’s dreams, and also did so in his fight against the Shacktron.


Phasing / Intangibility

Bill has shown the ability to phase or become intangible such as phasing through a ceiling to talk to Dipper, or phasing himself and a piano through the floor to visit Ford


Illusion Manipulation

Bill was able to create and trap Mabel in Mabeland, filled with illusions made to Mabel’s liking. Mabel was only able to dispel said illusions after reconciling with Dipper. 


Precognition

Iconic for his predictions and fortune telling, he has predicted extremely specific events such as the exact age Stanford Pines would be when he had a heart attack, as well as being able to predict events as specific as exact dates of people's deaths. He also was able to predict Dipper's exact manner of screaming seconds after, and can see a kaleidoscope of temporal probability with fluctuating range, where he can see infinite alterations of the future within infinite dimensions.

Size Manipulation

Bill has displayed the ability to shift his size casually, he commonly uses this ability to increase his size and strength. He can even shift specific parts of his body such as his fist. He can also manipulate the size of others growing Gompers and the Henchmaniacs in size at his command.


Possession

“EENIE, MEENIE, MINEY, YOU!”


Famously stole control of the body of Dipper Pines, he achieved this by tricking Dipper into a deal in which Dipper would give Bill “a puppet”. Dipper's consciousness was forcefully removed from his physical body leaving it free for Bill to control, Bill was knocked out of the body seemingly from exhaustion.


Regeneration

“AAH, MY EYE! DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW LONG IT TAKES TO REGENERATE THAT?!”


Even in his mindscape form, Bill was able to regenerate from things like having most of his soul being completely shattered, and is comparable to Dipper who can regenerate from a hole in his stomach. When Bill activates the rift, we see him being able to recreate his entire physical body, which means if it were to be destroyed, he can easily recreate it. He also partially regenerates after being blasted by the quantum destabilizer, which was stated by Ford to be able to “blast someone into nonexistence”. And even after suffering complete erasure in the mindscape in the finale of Gravity Falls, various materials heavily imply he was able to return.


Social Influencing 

Bill usually uses this skill in combination with his deals. Bill has smooth talked Ford into becoming his muse, striking a deal for his mind. Bill was able to trick Dipper into allowing Bill to take over his body under the guise he just wanted a puppet from Mabel's puppet show. While using Blendin Blandin's body Bill tricked Mable into giving him the rift that would let him cause Weirdmageddon.


Longevity

When Bill first speaks to the citizens of Gravity Falls, he mentions how he’s been living in the nightmare realm for a trillion years, waiting for a dimension to truly call home. Showing that he can live for a long amount of time.


Flight / Levitation

Bill is almost always levitating and when he is describing his plan for the universe he is shown flying through space at incredible speeds.



Dream Manipulation / Nightmare Inducement 

Bill has been shown to consistently be able to manipulate dreams in a variety of ways fitting his dream demon status. He can give people nightmares, appear in dreams, and alter them as he pleases. Bill is also able to enter people's Mindscapes and Dreamscapes which he can effect and see into with examples like Stan. Bill can also trap people in dreams like he did with Mabel, trapping her in a dream bubble which he controlled.


Life Manipulation

Bill's can influence life-force in many ways. The most is via his "Weirdness Waves" which have been shown to turn inanimate objects into living organisms. Bill is also able to mess with and deconstruct the biological components of living organisms.


Absorption

Bill was able to absorb Mabel and spit her back out when she tried tackling him.


Energy Projection

Bill has been shown to be able to fire lasers from his fingertips and eye. He once used this to fire at Ford and Dipper inside of a tower destroying the top of it.


Weather Manipulation

Bill can create miniaturized clouds that shoot out lightning. He can also utilize electricity as a form of an offensive attack, such as when he tortured Ford in his pyramid.


Element Manipulation

Bill has shown control over multiple elements. Bill has been shown to use fire when he burned all three of Ford's journals with a snap of a finger. As mentioned before, he can also zap his opponents with electricity.


Matter Manipulation

In Weirdmageddon Part 3, Bill not only states he can control matter but he even shows it in the same scene. He also threatens to dissemble Dipper and Mabel’s molecules


Madness Manipulation

Bill can conjure "Bubbles of Pure Madness" or Weirdness Bubbles. These bubbles that cause anyone who sees inside of them to go insane. Bill's real name also can cause people to go mad and even evaporate into dust upon hearing it. Additionally, if one were to see Bill’s exoskeleton, they’d be driven to madness and permanently set out to erase what they’ve seen. Fiddleford McGucket caught a glimpse of Bill’s exoskeleton when he took it off to “feed”, and lost a part of his sanity due to that. 


Sleep Inducement

Bill was able to put Mabel to sleep after she unintentionally freed him while he was possessing Blendin with just a snap of his fingers.


Resurrection

Bill has some capacity to ‘survive’ even being erased as an idea. Such survival relies on the intercession of the ‘ancient power’ of the Axolotl; as it is said, “If he wants to shirk the blame, he’ll have to invoke my name. One way to absolve his crime, a different form, a different time.” This is technically supported by the fact that in the Gravity Falls DVD set, Bill Cipher appears as an Easter Egg, saying his punishment was actually being transported into that set (with that being the ‘different form’ and the ‘different time’) and having to relive every episode of the show for eternity. Bill specifically notes that he should be able to escape this punishment if someone watching the set takes an oath to him, possibly allowing him to come back eventually.


BFR

Bill is able to send people into dream bubbles. These small pocket dimensions are able to be controlled by Bill as he sees fit or to accommodate the person and their wildest dreams (Or worst nightmares). Bill can lock people there so they don’t escape; a strong mental fortitude however, can help dispel the temptations provided by these bubbles. 


Memory Manipulation

Shown in the physical edition of Journal 3, Bill was able to remove a word out of Ford's memory. The word Bill removed was "Burden" which Bill then replaced with "Sea Otter" in Ford's mind. Bill has also described himself eating dreams and how it’s "fun" to him. 


Portal Creation / Dimensional Travel

Bill is shown to be capable of creating portals to exit his pyramid at a moment’s notice, and through his existence in the Mindscape and Nightmare Realm, should be able to access other dimensions at his own leisure.


Power Bestowal 

Bill is shown on numerous occasions to be capable of granting others cosmic power. He offers to grant Ford power that would allow him to eclipse a galaxy and grants his Henchmaniacs a power and size boost to fight the Shacktron. He also told Stanley that he could give him infinite power.


Biological Manipulation

“Oh, wow, that’s a great offer! How about instead I shuffle the functions of every hole in your face?”


Bill has changed the biological structure of others and himself. A famous example is when Bill swapped around every hole in the body of Preston Northwest. Another example would be him gaining a physical form which would require him to change his biology to accommodate for this.


Forcefield Creation

Bill has shown himself to be able to create a small field around himself to defend against physical attacks. This forcefield repels people away from Bill as shown when Dipper went to punch Bill before getting pushed away.


Paralysis 

McGucket was paralyzed in fear and madness by one glance into the Nightmare Realm. Bill himself could send or show his opponents this realm and can likely recreate the effect himself with his bubbles of pure madness.


Soul Manipulation/Non physical interaction 

Bill is able to rip people's souls out of their body. This is most notably seen when he forced Dipper to be a floating soul after making a deal to steal his body. While it’s speculated that Bill can only do such a thing with his deals, the deals have never offered Bill an ability he hasn’t already shown access to in the past. In addition to this, he has shown to be able to affect the souls of Dipper, Mabel and Soos in the mindscape, and was nearly going to kill them.


Law Manipulation

Bill states that when he’s escaped from Gravity Falls, he’ll remove all restrictions and all laws, which is supported with the nightmare realm, a place he resides in, being lawless in nature. More information about the statement here.


Causality Manipulation

While talking about the havoc he’d spread if he was able to control reality to his whim, Bill questions the idea of cause preceding effect, suggesting he can alter that concept and manipulate causality itself. Though it’s unknown to what extent Bill could do this, he does also question other effects such as the idea of time only moving forward, which we know is referring to his general manipulation of time.


Quantum Manipulation

Bill exists within a state of quantum uncertainty and superposition, similar to the idea of Schrödinger’s cat, which means that everything that can be attributed to his being can also be negated to his being. Such superposition exists within a kaleidoscope of temporal probability, where there are an infinite amount of versions of himself answering questions with infinite variations.


Power Nullification

When in the mindscape, Bill was able to turn the entire battlefield into a white field, seemingly taking away everyone’s powers, with Mabel’s cat hands being gone and Dipper no longer being able to use his powers.


Power Amplification 

Achieving Weirdmageddon proved to be incredibly beneficial to Bill Cipher; considering Ford states that as Bill’s world spills into the real world, his powers grow stronger by the minute.


Creation

Bill can create almost anything from his twisted imagination. It can range from something as small as a head that is always screaming to a galaxy based on what Bill said to Stanley in his last moments.


The Mindscape & The Nightmare Realm

In order to access our universe from the Nightmare Realm, Bill is able to transport himself into a different dimension called the mindscape, which is an astral and cognitive plane of existence. Bill can exit and enter the Mindscape with his soul whenever he wants, and in doing so he can also enter people's minds or even affect their very souls.


Existence Erasure

While in the Mindscape, Bill could erase the portal that Dipper and co. were creating to banish him. He also turned the entire surrounding environment into an empty white void. Additionally; Mabel “erased” her Mabel Clones upon reconciling with Dipper while in Mabelland, which was only possible via the powers afforded by Bill.




Plot Manipulation(?)

Bill has shown several instances that suggest he has some form of awareness of the plot. During Weirdmageddon, he altered the intro of Gravity Falls seen by the viewer to contain his presence within it, and portray himself as the creator of the show. He also possessed the actual author, Alex Hirsch, during the Reddit AMA, in order to answer questions. This is supported by other cosmic beings such as the Time Baby, being portrayed as capable of holding Alex hostage and taking control over his actions and responses.


Discord

Draconequus Physiology

(Image credits to ultimatum323)

As a draconequus, Discord is made up of an abundance of different animal parts. Due to this amalgamation of parts, Discord has a variety of unique abilities. For example, his ears burn when ponies talk about him.

Being part pegasus, bat, and eagle, he possesses the natural ability to interact with the weather, whether that be pushing around or destroying clouds, producing precipitation by bouncing on or striking clouds, producing lightning by striking clouds, or even just creating cyclones or breezes by flapping his wings.

His body also possesses its own self-autonomy thanks to his chaotic nature, allowing each piece to act on its own accord. His tail is shown to be prehensile, even using the tail tuft as a third hand. His leg can detach itself and kick people on its own accord. After he changed himself to look like Celestia, his mane started acting like a cat. Even his paw digits can pop off and turn into miniature heads.

He’s also capable of eating just about anything, as he’s been seen drinking glass, as well as eating paper, Plunderseeds, and his tea glass. He’s even capable of drinking a water tower's worth of water.


Longevity

As a Chaos Lord, Discord has been around for an incredibly long time. He was friends with dinosaurs, lived among the minotaurs during Tirek’s youth, and lived well into the future of Generation 5 after everyone else disappeared. He’s stated he’s been around for eons, though this could be hyperbolic.

He’s also been referred to as immortal on several occasions, which is consistent with statements from other official media about other everpresent characters like Celestia and Opaline.


“Sparkle”

All living beings, and even just objects, possess a “Sparkle”, otherwise known as their aura or “vibe”, allowing those more attuned to it to sense things like one’s emotional states or whether or not they’re in pain. More absurdly, it can be used to determine factors such as one’s favorite smoothie flavor.


Chaos Magic

A powerful form of magic found exclusively within Chaos Lords, which provides complete control over reality to those tuned to using it. When wielded by any other creature, however, the magic is simply uncontrollable, producing random effects whenever magic of any other kind is used. It should be noted that magic is directly equivalent to one's life force.

This magic allows Discord to rearrange objects on the molecular level, and he can even manipulate energy, such as when he turned Sombra’s lasers into a variety of different objects. He’s also able to outright interact with intangible things such as magic.

As Discord has demonstrated repeatedly, his magic can be cast in a number of ways, whether that be snapping his finger, firing lasers or lightning as a conduit, or simply with a thought. Even large shockwaves can be used to manipulate the world around him. As noted in the official MLP Roleplaying Game, Discord can use his magic however he pleases, but chooses to be dramatic for the sake of showmanship.

He also has remarkable range with his magic, being able to draw glyphs in some far off cave, manipulate the sun and moon, and even reach across dimensions, allowing him to open doors prior to teleporting or teleport objects across dimensions.


Conceptual Embodiment + Manipulation
(Chaos + Order Manipulation)

There are numerous Chaos Lords across the multiverse, each of whom embody their own aspects of Chaos: Discord embodies Chaos and Disharmony, Cosmos embodies Malice, and Eris embodies Luck. Similarly, Accord embodies Order.

As such, there’s innumerable statements describing Discord as the “Spirit” or “Living Embodiment” of Chaos, as well as “Chaos Incarnate”. Similarly, other Chaos Lords are referred to as the “Actual Goddess” or “Personification” of their respective aspects. However, most notably of all is Accord, who refers to himself as the “Unifying Principle” of Order.

This is notable as Accord states that he resides within the hearts of those that desire Order, using that core desire to spread his very will and being to these individuals, creating a hivemind of himself. This same relation allowed Accord to manipulate the Elements of Harmony, turning their ability to restore Order against the users as well as using them to spread his influence to the rest of Equestria, taking control of every creature except Starlight, who’d managed to shield herself in time. Discord has somewhat demonstrated this as well, given he can speak through his chaotic creations.

Cosmos, similarly, heavily implies she has a connection to the malice found within every villain from Equestria’s past. She also mentions that Malice cannot be destroyed, which she says while threatening that she’ll regain her power, a threat she made good on when she returned in Gameloft’s Missing Wings and Maze-y Things event.

This ability to manipulate concepts is consistent with other minor examples Discord has demonstrated, given he can create plaid-flavored cookies and ice cream that tastes like sunlight, as well as create all new colors.

Due to this relation to Chaos, Discord can draw power from the chaos he creates as well as the chaos around him. It’s due to this he was able to ultimately break out of Celestia’s weakening Stone Sleep spell as well as regenerate from near-non existence (explained more in Regeneration).


Flight

Discord is naturally capable of flying, however his fun is greatly enhanced via his Chaos Magic, allowing him to simply float about freely, which is vastly his preferred method. He’s also capable of floating down with an umbrella Mary Poppins style. While his individual body parts can also float, his disembodied head is also capable of flying by flapping his ears.


Enhanced Senses

Discord has consistently shown to possess a vast knowledge of the world around him, even when it doesn’t make sense for him to know such, such as when he was sealed away as a statue. He knows the exact locations of people he’s interested in, regardless of if they’re in hiding, is always listening for when people specifically call out for him (which is made all the easier as his ears burn when people talk about him), and even beyond that he always has an interest in eavesdropping on conversations from people he’s close to, looking for gossip or information he can take advantage of. He’s even capable of reading thought bubbles.

Besides that, he can perceive events happening several kilometers away, even when his direct line of sight is blocked, thanks to being able to zoom in his sight, he can sense when Fluttershy is in trouble, and he can sense magical imbalances, which allowed him to track Tirek stealing magic and also informed him of when the Princesses transferred their magic to Twilight.

It’s noted in the official MLP Roleplaying Game that Discord has Eyes and Ears Everywhere, allowing him to use his control over time and space to see and hear anything that’s ever been said, making it incredibly hard to sneak up on or deceive him. In Gameloft’s Crowns and Chaos event, Chrysalis, driven mad by Chaos Magic, was stuck staring into the abyss out of pure shock.


Disembodied Voice

Discord has a knack for being able to communicate anywhere he desires without the need to physically be there, using it to taunt his foes freely. He’s also capable of shouting loud enough for his voice to echo across all of Ponyville.


Teleportation / Portal Creation

Whether on the spot, via lightning, smoke, or smoke bombs, or via some other wacky build up, Discord can teleport freely across Equestria and even to other dimensions. In less animated media, he’s also capable of teleporting across dimensions by flipping pages and by passing over comic panel barriers. He can even pull on space-time itself like a window blind or shower curtain to warp. He’s also capable of teleporting into places he wouldn’t normally fit, cartoonishly appearing from behind people or objects, teleporting inside objects or people, from underneath hats, or teleporting in flat spaces, like behind a hung painting.

This teleportation isn’t limited to himself, however, as he can drag others around with him, swap places, or simply teleport them independently, as well as teleport objects even down to specific pages from books. He can ensnare people in rope while teleporting them. He even enchanted one of Starswirl’s libraries, causing it to teleport every time the wizard got close to finding its location. Discord’s noted that he’s capable of teleporting to specific people regardless of if he knows their location, and he can drag people out of hiding likely through this same method.

Discord can also create portals between dimensions, whether that be basic portals, opening holes underneath people, vortexes, simple rifts in space, or physically tearing open space via his claws. These can be opened in rapid succession, allowing a variety of creatures to travel through freely.

Interestingly, Discord’s been shown to even be capable of traveling beyond his own continuity, traveling to Macadam’s Old Oil House from Transformers Animated in order to be drinking buddies with Sideways.


BFR

Discord can forcefully eject people through portals either by gravity manipulation or by summoning chutes and ladders, trap people in a Ghostbusters Ghost Trap, or transport people in and out of pocket dimensions freely, with them only recognizing they’ve been summoned after they’re kicked out.


Reality Warping

Fitting for the zany Lord of Chaos, reality warping is his bread and butter. He could warp Canterlot’s castle maze, making it loop up mountains as well as hang down from the sky and sideways, turned Fluttershy's cottage into a full on mansion, and created two doors on the same wall of his living room that lead to different rooms despite overlapping space. He can stare down an envelope, causing it to tear open, stretch out and roll up a staircase, and squeeze a cage with his giant fist, popping the lid off and ejecting the prisoners.

He’s also capable of altering entire landscapes, creating random colors and patterns, turning an entire environment into crackers, cloth, and corn, creating a giant volcano and rerouting a train track to spiral up and drop into it, or even melting the sky and tearing it like paper. Princess Luna, while possessed by Discord’s Chaos Magic during Gameloft’s Crowns and Chaos event, created several new Chaos Moon Phases.

He’s also capable of reversing the condition of objects, repairing damaged stage lights, returning books and other objects to a shelf, restoring ice cream that had fallen into the dirt, unsplattering fruit, and even restoring the damage his pocket dimension had created while expanding.


Summoning / Creation

The most basic skill of any reality warper is the ability to produce things from thin air. Luckily for Discord, thin air, thick air, or no air at all pose no problem for him. He can summon anything that comes to mind, whether that be living objects, a massive golden throne, animated posters, whatever outfits he desires, trapdoors to underground caverns, or a lava-sucking vacuum. He can summon living ribbons, chains, spider webs, vines, or tentacles to restrain people as well as trap people in unbreakably elastic bubbles, balloons full of helium, large cages, or a giant stone Rook piece with Development Heck.

Similarly, summoning creatures such as Twittermites, Bugbears, or even an Ursa Major, summoning King Sombra from the Aether, summoning the entire Apple Family, or creating self-destructing clones of the Mane 6 are all well within his power, providing Discord with a wide variety of minions to create chaos. He even has a moving library filled to the brim with living paper, providing him an army of various origami minions as well as giant paper hands and dragons.


Spatial Manipulation

Discord is capable of physically interacting with the space around him, whether that be opening it like a door, tearing open holes in spacetime to create a portal to another dimension, or physically cracking space, pulling on space like a curtain. Similarly, he can transition worlds from day to night by folding it out like a blinder curtain.

Discord is also capable of creating Pocket Dimensions. These can vary in size from a single stadium to an entire universe in size without affecting the size of the outer bubble, though said bubble can be increased in size either intentionally or if Discord starts to get aggressive in his determination while altering the pocket dimension, tearing up the ground around it as it expands. Discord is also capable of altering whether or not people are allowed to enter the bubble.

Discord also created a dimension where everything was opposite, which caused Fluttershy to act the opposite of herself and inverted the colors of everything around them..


Gravity Manipulation

Whether manipulating entire landscapes or simply screwing with individual people or objects, playing with gravity has always been one of Discord’s favorite tricks. After all, it’s ever so boring to be limited by normal gravity, even if he can reinstate it whenever.

He can extend landscapes onto the sides or top of the screen, tear apart the landscape to make individual chunks of land float around freely, create rooms on different orientations, or simply make gravity optional for entire bodies of land. He can also create waterfalls that flow upside down, cause objects to fall upwards, allow fish to swim around in the air, fly around with floating objects, or force flying individuals downwards by gravity.


Existence Erasure

Discord is capable of erasing matter instantly, erasing both sentient and non-living entities. He can even do it on a wider scale, erasing small bodies of water or even an entire farm’s worth of snow. He even killed Fet Lockland, reducing the businesspony to mere vapors.


Time Travel

Discord has a knack for time travel, even taking others back with him in order to show events of the past. This also allows him to grab objects of importance from the past, such as when he stole the Elements of Harmony for a Scavenger Hunt. He also has a time machine, but it’s more for show than his sole means of time travel. On top of this, he’s demonstrated the capability to stop time altogether.


Causality Manipulation

Chaos Magic works as the antithesis to logic, allowing Discord to manipulate causality as he sees fit. Examples of this include taking bites out of an apple restoring chunks, glasses filling upside down, dishes dirtying by running them through water, growing a mane by cutting it, and impacting the ground resulting in a bunch of random monster parts bursting out. Discord’s most famous use, however, was when he caused Berry Punch’s sneeze to turn houses and trees into cardboard cutouts as well as cause them to fall over.


Probability Manipulation

Discord created the Mirror of Mayhem, a cursed mirror which spread severe bad luck to those that possessed it. Ships were sunk, Scuba Divers eaten, and ponies got maimed, pincushioned, and assaulted by bees. Even when the mirror granted a town an eternal need for Lightning Rod’s lighthouse, it came at the cost of boats occasionally crashing amongst the spiked rocks.


Law Manipulation

When creating his ultimate Scavenger Hunt, Discord teleported the Elements of Harmony across the multiverse, with the one condition that they could only return if their respective Mane 6 member retrieved the Element. It was only after he’d already done it that he realized the condition was so set in stone that even he couldn’t reverse it.


Possession

Discord can transfer himself, or even just part of his body, into objects to possess them. While his most common instance is with stained glass windows, freely flowing through them and other nearby windows as he pleases, he’s possessed a number of other objects, people, or animals.


Size Manipulation

Discord can freely manipulate his size to either grow to the size of houses or shrink down to the size of mice. He can also affect other entities, such as growing woodland creatures to giants.

Similarly to Cosmos, he should also be capable of growing to the size of entire castles as well as shrinking objects like skyscrapers down to mere knots on a tree root.


Shapeshifting

Discord possesses the ability to freely transform his body. This can be full-body transformations, such as changing his color, turning himself into a group of butterflies, haybales, bubbles, an infant, large clouds, or floating signs, as well as partial transformations, such as dispersing his limbs, growing a second head, growing extra limbs, deflating himself like a balloon, or turning his head into a lightbulb. He can even turn himself into a Cybertronian.

Discord can also turn pre-existing objects into himself, such as appearing from the ground, appearing from a coat rack, turning a carrot into his tooth, turning a Plunderseed Vine into himself, or turning a giant mirror into his eye.


Elasticity

Discord’s body is incredibly elastic, thanks to his serpentine nature but especially due to his Chaos Magic. As such, he can stretch his limbs great distances, condense his body tightly before springing out in a sudden burst, as well as inflate his body for gags.


Regeneration / Resilience

Discord is capable of freely tearing apart his body, often doing so for gags or in combat. Examples of such include removing his head from his body, pulling his eyes from his head, tearing himself in half, splitting his head to avoid Tirek’s attack, shattering to small pieces, and even liquifying himself during a sneeze before regenerating his body from the cloud of mucus.

Discord was even capable of regenerating from near non-existence thanks to his connection to chaos. It should be noted that while fading away, Discord reached a point where he was not only incapable of interacting with the world around him but was also incapable of interacting with his own body. Considering Discord can interact with the world even when intangible or as a ghost, this would imply he recovered from a state worse than merely being reduced to his soul.


Healing

After transporting Spike and Big Mac out of Ogres and Oubliettes, Discord healed the wounds they had received.


Duplication

Discord can create a number of clones of himself, assisting in tasks or just being there to confuse everyone around him. These clones can take on slightly different personalities, though this rarely has a use outside of Discord talking to himself. Supposedly, according to one of his trading cards, Discord always leaves a clone of himself back in Chaosville.


Intangibility

Discord can phase through objects or outright turn into a ghost-like form.


Illusion Creation / Perception Manipulation

Discord is capable of creating illusions, whether that be creating impossibly large illusory spaces within small rooms, tricking individuals into perceiving objects as something grander, or creating fake visages of a variety of different events. He can even materialize in the reflections of several dozen ponies’ drinks.


Social Influencing / Mind Manipulation

Discord has been described as a smooth-talker, which is no joke. He is a master manipulator, capable of corrupting individuals by teasing their vulnerabilities, using any moment of hesitation to warp a person’s personality entirely, corrupting the individual into their opposite self. Once upon a time, he even used his talent with words to turn several of the inexperienced Elements of Harmony against their original Knights, waging a coup that devastated numerous societies.

Even when words don’t work, whether due to stubbornness or sheer, unwavering kindness, Discord can simply corrupt an individual with a single touch, via town-wide clouds of smoke or even without interacting with them directly at all.

Even beyond this basic corruption, Discord can make people act like animals, turn animals hyper aggressive (as well as calm the hyper aggressive), skip to the end of a person’s monologue by scratching out what they’re going to say, or outright enforce his will onto people by manipulating their internal desire for Chaos (or Order should he find himself as Accord again), taking full control of their very being and turning them into a hivemind of himself.


Puppeteering / Body Control

Fitting his nature as a puppeteer, which I’m not a fan of, Discord can puppet both people and objects, forcing them to do as he desires. Forcing things to dance seems to be one of his favorite options.


Sleep Inducement

With a snap of his fingers, Discord can put groups of people to sleep instantly.


Memory Alteration

Discord rewrote the memories of the Equestrian rulers, removing any memory of Cosmos and making it so they believed he was solely responsible for everything she instead did. It’s also been seen repeatedly that when Discord summons ponies to participate unwillingly in his games, they often don't remember what happened after.


Madness Inducement

Chaosville is dangerous, as any normal pony would be driven mad simply by existing within it for an extended period of time. Chaos Magic has a similar, stronger effect on its user. Even Pinkie Pie, who can out-crazy eldritch beings (who are noted as being brain-melting) and is repeatedly stated to be nigh-incorruptible, was quickly driven mad with power after being given near-full control of Discord’s Chaos Magic. Gameloft’s Crowns and Chaos event has Discord's Chaos Magic unintentionally take control over a dozen different characters, driving them mad with power. This even included characters that resist Madness Inducement, such as Princess Celestia and Queen Chrysalis.


Telekinesis

Discord is capable of moving objects around telekinetically, even when grabbing large groups of individuals at once.


Life Manipulation

Discord is a master at bringing mundane objects to life for the sole purpose of spreading chaos, whether that be balloons that bully people, fish saucers that spray people who make fish puns, Ginsing Tea that actually sings, or apples so dedicated to delivering riddles that they nearly destroy Ponyville. He can also create living weapons like flying daggers or suits of armor, as well as create monster houses or walls that try to eat people.


Plant Manipulation

Discord can freely manipulate plants, being able to grow them from nothing, change the color and flavor of fruits, grow spiky Everfree Vines from anything, and produce plants that grow any variety of everyday objects such as teapots, sports balls, and candy. He can pop corn cobs, grow tree roots or vines to restrain people, and even grew and moved around Canterlot’s castle maze, making it severely more maze-like. He should also compare to Cosmos, who had turned an herb garden into the Everfree Forest.


Biological Manipulation

Discord can manipulate the bodies of those around him, zipping mouths closed, sprouting wings from anything he desires, turning animals buff or outright monstrous, or even granting animals the ability to speak. He’s turned Spike into a Centaur, gave Big Mac a unicorn horn, and cast a glamor spell on the Mane 6 to mimic a summons from the Cutie Map.

He’s also quite familiar with removing body parts, whether that be something mundane like a pony’s mane or tail or something more severe like a pony’s wings or horn, literally severing their natural abilities. He’s also familiar with removing internal organs, such as a pony’s tongue.


Disease Manipulation

While pretending to be sick, Discord infected Applejack and Rarity with a real cold.


Power Bestowal

Discord can grant people new powers, whether that be by giving non-unicorns a horn, thus granting them magic, or simply outright granting new skills, such as when he turned the entire Apple Family into a clan of ninjas and gave the Twilicane magical girl powers.


Transmutation

Discord is a master of transforming the world around him.

He can turn ponies and animals into robots, turn trees into business ponies, turn couches into balloons, turn poured tea into a disco ball, turn Fluttershy's cottage into a spaceship, turn entire sidewalks into soap, turn a cauldron’s worth of pumpkin soup into flowers, turn a lake into a lake of milk, and so much more. He can trap ponies in playing cards, unravel castle towers like a ribbon, split the ends of a person’s clothes into snakes to restrain them, deconstruct a house into dust and reconstruct it as a pirate ship, or even cause others to unintentionally transmute the world around him, such as when he caused Berry Punch’s sneeze to turn nearby houses into cardboard cutouts. He’s even capable of transmuting non-physical things like chimney smoke or a pony’s magic.

He’s also capable of fusing objects together, whether that be creating living apples that can fuse together into a mutated, multi-legged kaiju, fusing a pony to the afterimages they leave behind to restrain their movement with a bungee cord, or giving Twilcane the power to merge the Mane 6 into a Megazord.


Stone Sleep

A powerful petrification spell Discord has grown very familiar with, considering it’s been used against him on multiple occasions. Discord assisted in using the spell to petrify Tirek, Chrysalis, and Cozy Glow following their attempted takeover of Equestria. Gameloft’s Crowns and Chaos event backs up Discord being able to use this spell as it’s stated it was Discord’s spell that had petrified the trio.

While at first the spell seems to be a simple petrification spell, turning the target into a solid statue, it actually enforces a hibernation of sorts, putting the target to sleep during their imprisonment. This spell has been repeatedly demonstrated to work even on those that resist petrification, plus the spell actively limits the target’s powers, preventing escape even by the likes of Discord despite him being awake and aware the entire time.


Weather Manipulation

On top of a pegasus’ natural ability to manipulate the weather, Discord’s magic allows him a far greater control over the weather. He can create massive sentient or spiky clouds, creates plaid clouds that grow strawberries, or create massive blankets of his cotton candy, chocolate rain clouds, which have a number of magic properties of their own. He’s also capable of creating giant gusts of wind, which he can use to dry ponies off.


Elemental Manipulation

Discord is capable of manipulating a wide variety of elements


Explosion Generation

Discord can cause objects to spontaneously explode, produce fireworks as he pleases, or outright self-destruct himself, turning into a blanket of smoke big enough to cover a hillside.


Sound Manipulation

Discord can cause an umbrella to meow when opened, add squeaks and creaks to non-broken floorboards, make ponies talk backwards or in various ciphers, and even attack with Bee Sharps.


Technology Manipulation

Discord manipulated the Cutie Map to give the Mane 6 a fake summons.


Fourth Wall Awareness

Discord is a master of breaking the fourth wall and using it as he pleases. He can pull objects from the edges of the screen, run along the edge of the screen, or push binoculars from one side of the screen to the other. Whether it be talking to the audience outright, narrating stories, arguing with the narrator, reading the current story’s script, writing captions or manipulating trading card text, Discord is keenly aware of his status as a fictional character.

He’s also very familiar with manipulating the edge of his media, whether that be bending, freezing, or melting comic panel borders, pulling up the background to hide objects in the tv static, traveling through parts of his world by flipping pages or crossing over panel barriers outright. He can even hang around outside the comic panels entirely, existing just outside a regular character’s comprehension where only other 4th Wall Aware characters can see him.


Plot Manipulation

Much like how Discord is keenly aware he’s fictional, he’s also familiar with manipulating the very plot of the world around him, ending a comic with the snap of his fingers, transitioning to the show’s intro with random objects, and even changing the entire world into a stereotypical manga, in which he changed the Apple Family into a clan of cosmically aware ninjas, stripped Twilight of her powers and made Twilicane a magical girl wand, turned Spike into a kaiju, and gave Twilicane the power to merge the Mane 6 into a Megazord. Of course, he changed everything back, though no one remembered what happened


Accord

Accord is Discord’s polar opposite, promoting Order and Sense as opposed to Chaos and Confusion. Accord possesses all of Discord’s memories and powers, but performs so in an Orderly manner rather than his former.

Though the first time Discord transformed into Accord took some time, Accord was able to instantly turn back into Discord, implying Discord should be able to do the same as the initial transformation was slow due to Discord’s hesitation and lack of experience with that kind of transformation.


The Mindscape

Mindscapes manifest as a pocket dimension, housing the individual’s consciousness, knowledge, personality, and more. The layout of each Mindscape is tailored to the individual of which it belongs, with Discord’s in particular being a disorganized, random mess of ideas, whereas Accord’s is a bland, gray office space, perfect for the master of Order.

Mindscapes can be accessed by individuals who’ve mastered specific spells, though they can also be entered by those who’ve mastered dream magic. Similarly, entering a Mindscape momentarily connects the traveler’s Mindscape to the original target’s, allowing travel freely between the now connected Mindscapes.

On top of possessing seemingly endless space, all Mindscapes house an infinitely long hallway, which splits off into an infinite number of possible choices and the futures that would result from those choices. These choices can then be visited while dreaming, blending elements of the past, present, and future in such a way that allows the individual to explore any hope, dream, or fear they may possess.

Discord’s mindscape in particular has the capability to completely nullify the magical and natural abilities of those within, preventing Unicorns from using their magic and even preventing winged creatures from flapping their wings altogether. This power nullification can seemingly even affect the likes of Discord and Accord, as neither demonstrate any form of flight or magic throughout Twilight and Luna’s visit, preferring to run down the group as a horde instead, although this could arguably be a result of Discord being too weak and Accord being too Orderly.

Resistances

Bill Cipher

Mind / Madness Manipulation

Bill can survive being in the Nightmare Realm without going insane. Bill has also likely seen himself without his exoskeleton (who hasn't) which, with just a peek at Bill without it, turned Fiddleford McGucket insane enough to where he had to erase his memories to forget the horrors he saw. The second McGucket was pulled out of the portal connected to the Nightmare realm he started speaking backwards and twitching while on the floor until he snapped out of it.

Transmutation

Bill is shown to be completely fine during his weirdness wave despite the fact his weirdness wave has been shown to transmute Gravity Falls and its residence. He has also turned into a statue and reverted back to his regular form with little issue. Bill's shape shifting capabilities may also be able to revert himself after being transmuted.

Power Nullification

The Shacktron's barrier has shown to completely take away and nullify the weirdness powers of other monsters - despite this, Bill has shown to be able to touch the barrier without having all of his power nullified.

Plot Manipulation

Bill Cipher has shown to be able to affect and act independently outside of his own shows medium, such as when he possessed Alex Hirsch - this means that he is unbound by whatever effects a narrative plot could put on him.

Cold Temperatures

Bill has been shown to be able to survive the cold vacuum of space without any problems.

BFR

Bill is unable to access dimensions normally through a physical form - however, he still possesses the ability to have his soul access the Mindscape anytime he wishes, which leads to and from the Nightmare Realm and any universe in the Gravity Falls multiverse, meaning he would be able to project his soul back to the universe if he needed to. 

Discord

Bodily Mutilation / Pain

Discord constantly destroys his body for gags, being able to recover from it instantly and without hesitation. He does not, however, know if he could still regenerate after losing his magic, implying this resilience is purely due to his Chaos Magic.


Power Nullification

Twilight was learning a Failsafe spell to reverse things that go wrong at the start of The Return of Harmony, but it failed due to Twilight not being powerful enough at the time to match Discord’s reality warping. Similarly, Discord’s magic can still affect the Smooze, whose body is anti-magical in nature, able to stop spells by coating a unicorn's horn. He can also eat Plunderseeds, despite their vines having magic-altering and stealing properties.


Magical Seals

Discord’s magic can ignore magical seals put in place to protect objects, such as how he stole the Elements from Celestia’s throne room despite her placing a protective spell only she could break, can travel to and from the moon with ease despite it having a barrier that stops people from escaping, and was able to teleport Tirek and Cozy Glow out of Tartarus.


Mind Manipulation

Accord imbuing his own will into others protected those controlled individuals from having their minds manipulated by other spells.


Madness / Corruption

Discord is unfazed by the madness induced by both Chaosville and Chaos Magic, which could drive even Pinkie mad, who’s capable of out-crazying Eldritch Beings, after prolonged exposure. Similarly, Celestia was capable of resisting the Changeling Amulet’s corruption via sheer magical power, with Discord being far more powerful than she.

Fear Manipulation

Discord laughed off Fluttershy’s Stare, which is capable of scaring a wide variety of creatures into compliance, such as the Cockatrice, Changelings, and even Flutterbat herself.

Even walls crumble at the might of Fluttershy’s Stare. (It should be noted this game is not canon, but is still funny to mention)


Possession

Discord could not be possessed by Cosmos, despite interacting with her gemstones, though he admits he was still affected by it in some way.


Dream Entering / Manipulation

Discord actively stops Luna from accessing his dreams.


Sleep Inducement

Discord was unfazed by the Stone Sleep spell’s sleep inducement, remaining awake for the spell’s entire 1000 year duration. Discord is still capable of creating chaos while asleep.


Minor Information Analysis

When Discord disguises someone as himself through illusions, they appear exactly as him, even to those that can sense an individual’s energy.

Transmutation

Even when others transform him, Discord is capable of turning back to normal


Telekinesis

Discord was able to simply blow away Starlight's magic aura, removing her telekinetic hold on him.


Fire Manipulation

Discord sets himself on fire on a number of occasions without any sign of hurting himself. Even standing directly in lava leaves no burns.


Cold Temperatures

Discord can survive unfazed in the cold of space or in a blizzard-filled snow globe.


Probability, Causality, and Law Manipulation

Chaos works as the antithesis to logic, naturally ignoring anything that relies on logic to function. Simply existing within Chaosville, as an example, was able to nullify the Cutie Mark Crusaders’ Bad Luck Curse, which determines the worst possible thing that could happen and forces it to come true.

Time Manipulation (Acausality)

In My Little Pony, time auto-corrects to account for changes to the past. Discord, however, is immune to these changes due to his chaotic energy. Similarly, those within close proximity to Discord experience a much slower effect of this auto-correction, though he notes there is a chance they would eventually be rewound out of existence by the timeline.

Arsenal

Bill


The Interdimensional Rift

Given to Bill by Mabel, The rift is a byproduct of the Portal built by Ford. It was created when Stan reactivated the portal. The rift would allow Bill to enter the mortal realm with a physical form increasing his power. Ford had contained the rift for a time but when Mabel grabbed the wrong backpack Bill tricked her into giving him the rift. Bill then shattered the casing, opening up a portal to The Nightmare Dimension and allowing Bill to start Weirdmaggedon. Ford states that as long the rift is open Bill gains power every minute.This rift is expressly powered by Bill and the old portal he helped create so it should be fair game to give it to him.


Gun

This mf Bill be packing heat

Discord


Plunderseeds

A satchel of fast-growing, seemingly sentient vines that Discord planted 1000 years ago prior to being trapped in stone by Celestia and Luna. They were meant to drain the Tree of Harmony of its magic to aid in Discord’s escape but the Tree had been able to protect itself for far longer than he had expected.

The vines are extremely stretchy and snap back when tension is released, but can also simply retract back into the ground to avoid being attacked. They also emit magic-altering properties, corrupting magic to go wild against the user’s wishes, and are capable of stealing magic outright as seen when they kidnapped Celestia and Luna and weakened the Tree of Harmony.

These seeds can also grow facehugger-esque flowers which spray some kind of low-strength sleeping gas and are likely responsible as well for the spiked clouds that emerged from the Everfree Forest, which are extremely resilient and ensnare anyone that tries to fly through them, and can fire lightning at nearby targets.


Bow & Arrow

Discord’s chosen weapon as the legendary Captain Wuzz.



Invisipaint

(Omg it's SpongeBob 😯)


Discord possesses a substance known as Invisipaint, which he used to prank Celestia for an entire week. This paint, when applied to a person’s body, turns them entirely invisible.


Enchanted Music Box 


A music box Discord created for Celestia as a present. The Music Box sprays sleeping gas which can instantly put individuals to sleep for a short time.


Enchanted Mirror


A mirror Discord created for Celestia as a present. Merely by looking into it, if the target so desires a day of relaxation, the mirror changes the target’s entire physical being into a nameless pony, sealing away their powers for 24 hours.


Color Tome 


An ancient, powerful tome that Discord stole from Twilight’s library. This tome can create vortexes across entire ecosystems that produce a variety of dangerous obstacles, such as sharp crystals, spiky vines, boulders, dead trees, crystalline hands, and much more, which move around via the electricity coursing through them. These portals can also just spit out electricity outright. More than anything, however, these vortexes can drain all color from the world in an instant.


Bewitching Bell

The mystical, enchanted bell of the legendary Grogar, which was used against him in his defeat so long ago. This bell was last seen in Discord’s possession, with no recorded evidence of where it went leading up to Generation 5.

The bell is capable of emitting a flash of light that sucks up the target’s magic, instantly draining them of their powers and storing it within the bell. The user can then use the bell to give themselves the sucked up magic, instantly boosting their power as fit, and since Discord has been stated to have an “unlimited supply of Chaos Magic” and the Bell absorbed it all, we can assume the Bell can drain and store an infinite amount of power/magic.


Feats

Bill Cipher

Overall

  • Was behind many of the conspiracies on Earth for thousands of years

  • Existed behind many of the leaders of ancient societies and prehistoric civilizations 

  • Temporarily controlled Gravity Falls with an iron fist

  • Invaded Stan’s mind and successfully retrieved the code to his safe (until he lost it)

  • Deceived Ford for years and tricked him into building the portal

  • Drove Fiddleford McGucket to madness in seconds

  • Defeated Time Baby and the Shacktron

  • Became larger than the earth in his projection 

  • Conquered the vast Nightmare Realm

  • Is apparently an incarnation of the Trickster God Loki (also told the Simpsons to buy crypto)

  • Somehow broke into the real world and gained a Reddit account

  • He even apparently took over Alex Hirsch’s mind to achieve this

Power

  • Casually melted a statue with an eye blast 

  • Overpowered the Shacktron; ripping its leg off and sending it flying with a swing

  • Destroyed the roof of a building with an energy blast (1.26 Tons of TNT)

  • Created a large crater and shockwave on the ground in his fight with the Shacktron [See above]

(1.08 Kilotons of TNT)

Speed

(Immeasurable)

Durability

“Pain is hilarious!”



Discord

Overall

  • Traveled the omniverse with Cosmos to wreak havoc

  • Ruled Equestria alongside Cosmos for an unknown time, plus an unknown time after

  • Sealed Cosmos on the moon

  • While ruling Equestria, tricked the Cat, Dog, and Zebra wielders of the Elements of Harmony into waging a coup against the Knights of Harmony

  • Effortlessly defeated Celestia and Luna.

  • Saved Equestria from Queen Chrysalis and the Changelings along with Trixie, Thorax, and Starlight Glimmer

  • Earned an Equestrian Pink Heart of Courage

  • Has tricked rulers and the Mane 6 on countless occasions

  • Took Fluttershy and the CMC on a time traveling adventure

  • Helped Tirek steal the magic of Equestria’s citizens in mere hours

  • Assisted Garbunkle and Sir McBiggun in taking on the evil Squizard and his skeletal army and rescuing Princess Shmarity

  • Defeated Pinkie Pie in the Cuckoo Cook-Off

  • Created and destroyed the Opposite Dimension in a matter of seconds

  • Helped turn the Legion of Doom to stone… for all of like a month

  • Created Pony Life

  • Became an honorary Cutie Mark Crusader


Power


Speed


Durability

Weaknesses

Bill Cipher

Despite his near god-like powers, Bill is far from perfect. He’s commonly egotistical and arrogant in his way of doing things, leading to him vastly underestimating his foes. He is incapable of passing outside of Gravity Falls due to its “Natural law of Weirdness Magnetism” creating a barrier around the town, with him being unable to penetrate its shield created by Ford around the Mystery Shack. Despite Bill being the master of mind, he's extremely vulnerable in the mindscape and erasing him in there will put him down for good (or at least for the time being). 

Discord

For being an all powerful Lord of Chaos and wielder of the second most powerful form of magic in My Little Pony, Discord’s still not perfect. For starters, like a lot of Equestria’s ever cheerful residents, he still has his insecurities and fears that can occasionally get the best of him. While these problems can usually be quickly overcome (in the space of a 20 minute episode, naturally!) they still can be a bit of a hurdle for him to deal with from time to time. It also doesn’t help that, like the vast majority of Equestria’s residents, he’s crazy. While Discord is certainly brilliant and an absolute genius, he can lose any sense of rationality or logical thought when especially stressed or worried about something. This has left him open to questionable or poor decisions in the past.


On top of that, Discord can have his magic absorbed and stolen away. It should be noted that not just any regular power nullifier or absorbent will work on Discord, or really any My Little Pony character. It takes a sufficient level of power to drain magic from ponies and creatures, and Discord is no exception. As such, given Discord’s immense power, there are few characters that can pull it off. But it has been done before on two occasions, once by Lord Tirek after draining the magic of all Equestria, and a second time by the immensely powerful Bewitching Bell of Grogar. He did manage to reclaim his magic on both occasions, though, and is still capable of fighting in other ways.


Finally, Discord is a creature of chaos. He is tied to its presence and thrives off of it. This has the downside, however, that he can become immensely weakened if chaos is completely stripped from both around him and within him, even fading from reality entirely. As a reality warper, generating chaos is immensely easy for Discord to do, and has never been exploited against him. But he has accidentally nearly destroyed himself in the past, specifically when trying to be nice and orderly for Fluttershy’s sake. She managed to counter this and restore him of course, but it is still worth noting that Discord does need to be sure that there is enough chaos in the area to live off of and survive.

Before We Begin…

Gravity Falls & Dimensionality

Part 1: Foundations, Time Travel, and the Nightmare Realm:


Gravity Falls is specifically based within a universe founded upon formal frameworks of mathematics and physics. Stanford Pines, one of the greatest geniuses to ever live, was one person who attempted to catalog even the ‘anomalous’: the things that seemed to violate the laws of nature and even logic itself, and categorize them into a formalized system of a specific scientific theory, “the Grand Unified Theory of Weirdness.” Such a theory posited the idea that Gravity Falls was a point wherein weirdness would “leak” from another dimension, a dimension constrained with different laws of physics compared to ours.


In order to falsify this theory, Stanford came up with a brilliant idea (with the help of a certain ‘spiritual muse’): he would create a gateway that could puncture a hole through this leak, to fall into the world beyond, and see the source of Gravity Falls’ weirdness. There was only one problem, such a gateway would require using Fifth-Dimensional Calculus and Applied Quantum Phase Theory, mathematics so advanced that the engineering capabilities it would offer would be equivalent to a Temporal Displacement Hyperdrive, which wouldn’t be invented by humanity for another ten thousand years. It being a hyperdrive from the future, which displaces time itself, likely makes it comparable to an alternative timeline’s Dipper and Mabel’s space racer, which allowed them to warp through hyperspace and reach “the time and space between time and space”, a kaleidoscopic white void where time itself had stopped. Such a description is identical to Blendin’s own monologue on what occurs when you use a time tape (which allows you to enter hyperspeed), whereby you enter a place that’s “not a time or a space but rather a place between time and space”, which allows you to see the “fourth dimension… sprawled out like a river delta”, with infinite lives and parallel universes co-existing, finally allowing you to step out of that river (the fourth dimension) which binds infinite four dimensional universes. Once entering this state, it allows you to step outside the fourth dimensional state of entire universes and see it as equivalent to “strips of film”. As it would be stepping ‘outside’ the fourth-dimension, it would be stepping ‘inside’ some higher, larger dimension. 


(This information comes from Dipper and Mabel and the Curse of the Time Pirates' Treasure, a Choose Your Own Adventure (CYOA) book which, although being labeled “non-canon” by Alex Hirsch, contains enormous canon information. Canon is defined by Hirsch as everything happening on the show, meaning the CYOA book doesn’t take place within the main timeline of the show. The CYOA book even recognizes this, saying it takes place within countless alternate timelines within the Gravity Falls multiverse, and hence any cosmological structure within the book would exist within that multiverse. Additionally, the ‘enormous canon secret’ Hirsch hints at is highly considered the Axolotl, which existed within the ‘in-between space’ which was discussed in this paragraph to begin with. An additional piece of information is that the “Land of Malfunctioning Time Lines”, where variants displaced from time tend to wind up like potato chips at the bottom of the bag, is quite literally the same description used by an alternate version of Mabel in the canon Gravity Falls: Lost Legends comic wherein she describes what happens to Mabels when they get lost throughout different timelines. Hence the CYOA book definitely takes place in the same multiverse.)


Such an “in-between space” is analogous to Bill’s own Nightmare Dimension, which is what Stanford was attempting to reach through the portal of his. Such a dimension isn’t a dimension at all, but instead “the dimension between all dimensions”, the “in-between space”, and a “shifting intergalactic foam between dimensions”.  It acts as a gateway to every other dimension, and lacks a consistent framework of physics or laws. As Weirdmageddon was also supposed to transform the real world into the Nightmare Realm, the Nightmare Realm would lack a one-dimensional temporal dimension as time wouldn’t only move forward, and cause wouldn’t necessarily precede effect. The Nightmare Realm finally even contains geometric objects that necessarily cannot exist within ordinary three dimensional Euclidean space, such as Penrose triangles and Penrose stairs. Such objects, in order to actually exist as they exist in the Nightmare Realm, would have to be actualized through geometrical spaces such as 3-manifolds, which exist as spaces for objects that act as boundaries for other objects that exist in four spatial dimensions.


It is therefore possible to make an argument for the Nightmare Realm to be higher in spatial dimensionality in and of itself, as it is regarded by Ford as existing on a higher plane, and exists as a sort of ‘bulk-space’, wherein the entire universe, which is a four dimensional manifold, ‘floats’ in a space with differently applicable physical constants, and since it is not equal in volume to a four dimensional manifold, it necessarily must be fifth-dimensional. As a collection of the previously accounted for points, the argument that the Nightmare Realm is fifth-dimensional can be made: 


  1. The Nightmare Realm can only be reached through a gateway produced by fifth-dimensional calculus.

  2. The gateway can only be powered by a hyperdrive comparable to other technology which allows someone to step out of the fourth-dimension entirely and see entire infinite four-dimensional universes as film strips.

  3. The Nightmare Realm lacks a single temporal dimension (it doesn’t see time as needing to move one way, and doesn’t see causality as needing to precede its effects), indicating a second temporal dimension. 

  4. The Nightmare Realm contains objects that are actually real which are impossible to exist in three spatial dimensions, and require four (such as Penrose triangles). 

  5. The Nightmare Realm is analogous to a Bulk-space, which is inherently fifth-dimensional due to being inaccessible by ordinary four-dimensional space. Ford even drew a diagram of a four-dimensional space manifold being folded and bridged through a wormhole (which in this case is the portal), necessitating its existence in a higher dimensional space, which in Gravity Falls cosmology would be the ‘in-between’ space, or the Nightmare Realm:


Since there are infinite universes in Gravity Falls, the multiverse would be equivalent to an infinite number of the folded manifolds in the above picture, where these infinite manifolds are chained together, separated by a space called the ‘Nightmare Realm’, which acts as a gateway to all the universes in this chain. As the Nightmare Realm must be infinite to fit in-between infinite individual universes (with it also being called ‘endless space’ by Evil Mabel, and Ford uses an infinitely long belt tied to the real world so that he isn’t lost within the Nightmare Realm, implying that it’s infinite) it also cannot be within the set of those infinite universes, as it would otherwise be another dimension within the fourth-dimension. As in, if it were four-dimensional, it would be within one of the universes, as there are an infinite amount of them (and hence an infinite amount of four-dimensional objects). As such, since it is not within a given universe but ‘in-between’ them, it must be of some higher ‘hyperspace’, which would be fifth-dimensional.


Additionally, since the Nightmare Realm was going to ‘fill’ the entire universe, without it being depleted (as the universes wouldn’t collide with each other, which would happen if there was nothing in-between them), and this filling was affecting the entire timeline, the Nightmare Realm would be so large that filling an entire four-dimensional space-time continuum would not deplete its infinite volume (since the Nightmare Realm is ‘in-between’ infinite universes, it necessarily must be infinite), despite this four-dimensional space-time continuum being capable of containing spatially infinite things, fourth-dimensional infinite loops, as well as the timeline containing infinite future temporal points. As such, the infinite Nightmare Realm was capable of filling an infinite four-dimensional space without depleting any of its own infinite volume whatsoever, indicating that the infinite volume of the Nightmare Realm is even more ‘infinite’ than the volume of an infinite four-dimensional continuum.


Therefore, it is rational to assume the Nightmare Realm is at least fifth-dimensional. 


Part 2: Bill Cipher, universes with more or less than three spatial dimensions, and pan-dimensional aliens:


Bill, Ford’s muse whose machinations inspired the construction of the portal to begin with, is a triangle from a two-dimensional universe. Bill has specifically said regarding the nature of his own existence, “Edwin Abbot has a decent idea”, with Edwin Abbot being the writer of the 19th century Novella Flatland, which is a fictional story of a two-dimensional universe with classes of individual shapes within a specific social hierarchy. As such, Gravity Falls specifically exists within a setting with a precedent of actually having and understanding non-compactified spatial dimensions. Ford, in his journey to collect information pertaining to Bill and possibly his defeat, once encountered a world that was a totally two-dimensional universe. Such a universe totally lacked depth, only possessing length and width, with Ford’s three-dimensional body existing within a ‘bulk-space’, with only his face intersecting as an infinitely thin geometric object within this universe. This altercation has caused quite a lot of questions, which ought to be answered. 


Q: Ford specifically was able to be harmed by beings in this dimension. Doesn’t this go against the principles of Dimensional Tiering ipso facto?


A: No. Contrary to popular belief, Dimensional Tiering does not state that lower dimensional objects cannot affect higher dimensional ones, it only states that higher dimensional hyper-volumes which are infinite are larger than lower dimensional volumes which are infinite. To be more specific, variables like mass are scalar quantities, with scalar quantities being unaffected by any vectorial circumstance, like dimensionality. Additionally, one of the most well-known examples of higher dimensions in physics is string theory, yet lower dimensional objects in string theory can affect higher dimensional objects in bulk-spaces through gravitational energy generated from their own mass. 


To give even more examples of lower dimensional objects harming higher ones, elementary particles such as photons are assumed in Quantum Field Theory to be zero-dimensional points, despite photons being capable of producing DNA damage in high enough frequencies. Black Holes specifically have no volume and are only definable per surface area (meaning they are two-dimensional), yet going past the event horizon (the surface area) of a Black Hole would instantly kill you. Cosmic Strings are theoretical one-dimensional strings that are light years in length, which can cause huge gravitational disturbances through mass and hence attract and affect three-dimensional objects. 


Vs Battle Wiki’s tiering system (one of the most used frameworks for Dimensional Tiering with regard to power scaling) in fact says exactly what was said above, just in different words:

To add on, the only thing Dimensional Tiering does say is that higher dimensional volumes (hyper-volumes), when infinite, are larger than lower dimensional volumes when infinite. The reason for this is relatively simple: any actually existing volume can be mapped out on any given variation of a Cartesian coordinate system, which, when dealing with real numbers (which actually exist and hence can be mapped to reality) is based on a multiplication of number lines for coordinates. Hence, a one-dimensional coordinate system can only be described by one real number line, (x), corresponding to length, while a two-dimensional coordinate system can be described by two real number lines, (x,y), length and width, while a three-dimensional coordinate system can be described by three real number lines, (x,y,z), corresponding to length, width, and height. Dimensional Tiering only says that a coordinate system with (x,y,z), where those real number lines extend to infinity, is infinitely greater than a coordinate system with (x,y), because (x,y,z) is the real number line multiplied by itself three times (R^3, or Infinity x Infinity x Infinity) while (x,y) is just R^2, or Infinity x Infinity. That is the only thing Dimensional Tiering makes a claim about, as stated by Vs Battles Wiki’s tiering system as well as Gravity Falls itself:

Additionally, Gravity Falls does not necessarily believe in a singular model of dimensionality in the physical sense, either. When Stan had been sucked into a comic book and the Pines family went after him, Ford described their continued existence as two-dimensional, saying “goodbye to your width!” Such a two-dimensional universe allowed the Pines family as three-dimensional natives to even edit the plot of the comic they were in, with this two-dimensional comic universe even having a hint that Bill had visited it, indicating that dimensions in Gravity Falls are on a spectrum of fictionality and reality when it comes to how they function, with fictionality in Gravity Falls having the quality of ‘qualitative superiority’, such as Dipper seeing Rumble as ‘fictional’ via being a video game, until that dimensionality is transformed into an actual two-dimensional being through magic, with Rumble still admittedly lacking depth, but possessing actuality when otherwise he was a fictional character. As such, Gravity Falls has the both of best worlds: having infinitely lower ‘fictional worlds’ analogous to lower narrative dimensions, and having those fictional worlds gaining reality while still having lower spatial extension. Gravity Falls therefore is sufficient in analogy to real world physical science when it comes to spatial dimensions and other definitions of ‘narrative dimensionality’ when it comes to most tiering systems for power scaling.


Q: Why is having one more real number line coordinate in a volume more impressive than a volume that lacks that coordinate?


A: It just means the volume with the coordinate is larger than the one without it, which means that the volume with the coordinate has more points, and therefore you can fit more energy into that volume. Hence why destroying or shaking a higher-dimensional universe is more impressive than destroying or shaking a lower-dimensional universe, because the higher-dimensional one has more points, more space, to fit more energy within it, in fact, an infinite amount of more space, and therefore an infinite amount of more energy! 


Q: But Bill was explicitly just 2-dimensional until he became 3-dimensional. How would Bill scale to these higher dimensions?


A: Simple. Dimensionality of a person does not exclude the possibility to have higher dimensional power sources. Throughout fiction, we categorize beings as having higher dimensional power sources, despite themselves being just mundanely 3-dimensional. An example would be somebody like Zatanna from DC comics. She specifically is a 3-dimensional human being, while possessing magic, a higher dimensional power source. The same is possible for Bill Cipher, who specifically is a type of sorcerer rather than anything else. How would Bill specifically scale to higher dimensional spaces in his multiverse? Well, that’s relatively simple. The portal was capable of shaking the entire Nightmare Realm, and therefore was able to affect its entire volume. If the volume is higher dimensional, then that means the portal’s energy was able to ‘fill’ an entire higher dimensional volume, and therefore possesses a higher dimensional energy density, with this energy density being infinite if that dimension is infinite. As otherwise proven, the Nightmare Realm is infinite, so such an energy density would also be infinitely higher dimensional. Bill specifically scales to the portal, as Ford (who was capable of producing the portal, as well as a containment field for the rift, a fraction of the portal) could not specifically produce an energy source for the Quantum Destabilizer until he had encountered a parallel version of his old lab assistant, Fiddleford, with the Quantum Destabilizer specifically being Ford’s only hope to harm and kill Bill. Therefore, the production of the Quantum Destabilizer, the only hope to harm Bill, was beyond Ford’s engineering capacity, despite that capacity being capable of producing things that scales to the portal.


Part 3: Eleven-Dimensional Aliens


Remember the hyperdrive from earlier, the one Ford needed to open a gateway to the Nightmare Realm? Well, that hyperdrive belonged to an extremely large alien spacecraft. The exact pilots of this spacecraft had been described by Ford as having skeletal structures identical to “the Pan-Dimensional beings of Trilazzxx Beta”. Such aliens were known to be ‘Pan-Dimensional’ due to specifically existing within “7 and 11 dimensions at once”, giving them a “horrible sense of direction.” This page itself has caused a great deal of controversy, insofar as many have argued about this referring to spatial dimensionality. 


The first point to be made is the definition of pandimensionality. Specifically, it means “of or pertaining to all dimensions in reality’, as one of its roots, ‘pan’, literally means ‘all’, or ‘every’ in Greek. This therefore defeats the conception that these dimensions are specifically referring to space-time continua (or distinct universes), as there are much more than seven or eleven in the Gravity Falls Multiverse. In fact, there are an infinite amount. As such, this statement for these aliens being ‘pandimensional’ doesn’t correspond to them existing in multiple universes at once. Additionally, them having a ‘horrible sense of direction’ is indicative of these dimensions actually being vectorials, as higher dimensions correspond to more ‘directions’ in some vector space, and hence more dimensions outputs more directions for any given object in such a space. 


Q: But didn’t these aliens die from crashing into a mountain? How could they be 7 or 11 dimensional? 


A: Again, existing in a higher dimension doesn’t make you invincible to all harm in a lower dimension. If they were moving sufficiently fast, such a collision would generate an inordinate amount of force and therefore would cause pressure, or the displacement of mass, which isn’t something that is just negated by higher dimensions simply because that displacement comes from a lower dimension. It is a huge misconception to say that higher dimensional entities cannot be harmed by lower dimensional forces, especially when these forces are scalar (like pressure), which isn’t bounded by vectorial quantities like dimension. 


As such, them being 7 or 11 dimensional wouldn’t contradict with them dying that way. Additionally, it is entirely possible that only their senses existed in such dimensions, which would explain why their directions were so horrible, yet they seemed to have rather innocent skeletons.


Q: What does this prove?


A: It’s indicative of there being more than even five spatial dimensions in Gravity Falls, and Gravity Falls having a deep comprehension of spatial dimensions. If eleven dimensions exist within the Gravity Falls multiverse, it inherently would be embedded within the multiversal bulk-space, which is in-between all things that exist within the multiverse. It is just an additional piece of evidence to consider. Another neat tidbit of information is that eleven dimensions correspond to some versions of string theory, which says the universe is a hologram. Pretty familiar, right?

Verdicts 

Team Bill Cipher 

Stats

To be frank, Discord doesn’t really stand a chance against Bill with regard to statistics. A more worthwhile analysis could be given through breaking this up individually, and answering possible questions and interjections, to come to a better understanding with regard to power:


  • Bill at minimum is universal, as upon coming into his power during Weirdmaggedon, he was casually willing to make Ford larger than an entire galaxy, which would require a mass-energy value one trillion times larger than all the mass-energy that exists within the universe. This is specifically a level of power that Bill implies possessing despite the fact of its significance, not regarding it as anything but an offer he could make happen if Ford accepts his deal. This is specifically a much larger showing that Bill regards with nonchalance compared to a majority of things in My Little Pony, as most of the feats when it comes to that show with regard to the cosmic variety are more in line with moving the sun or affecting stars and constellations, and nothing on the level of making something a trillion times more massive and energy-dense than the entire universe at a mere gesture without recognizing the severity of that fact.

  • Another showing that is extremely above universal would be the rift, powered by Bill, eventually destroying the fabric of existence, with this fabric specifically including the entire timeline, past and future. This is important due to the fact that timelines in Gravity Falls are able to contain infinitely large four-dimensional structures, and it is also important to note that the ones who specifically attempted to intercept Bill in his destruction of the timeline were the Time Police from the future, whose time tapes (which allowed them to reach Bill in the first place) allow them to exit the totality of the fourth-dimension and enter a higher space, which allows them to see the totality of each universe as film strips. This means that the destruction Bill caused could only be escaped by moving past the fourth-dimension and into a higher one. This specifically would make Bill’s rift explosion ‘infinite four-dimensional’ at minimum, or infinite multiversal.

  • Bill of course is, most probably, way above universal due to scaling to other feats as well. “The big one” in this case would be the portal shaking the Nightmare Realm during its reactivation by Stanley. Bill specifically scales to this for a multitude of reasons. (1), the portal was capable of powering the Shacktron, which Bill was able to fight. (2), Bill was able to recreate the portal to the Nightmare Realm during Weirdmaggedon, as he opened his own portal in the sky of Gravity Falls from the rift. As this portal continued until Bill died, the portal would be reliant on Bill’s own power, and hence he would scale. (3), finally, Ford was unable to harm Bill despite being able to produce technology that constituted the portal or otherwise scales to the portal. Ford was capable of producing containment technology for the rift, which is specifically a smaller portion of the portal, despite the fact that he was not able to produce any technology to affect Bill in any way until he produced the Quantum Destabilizer. This feat is regarded as “the big one”, due to the fact that the Nightmare Realm is specifically at minimum infinite in size, and is specifically the space that is inexhaustible by even infinite four-dimensional universes. That is, the Nightmare Realm exists within the space that infinite four-dimensional universes cannot fill, despite that space existing between them. As the Gravity Falls multiverse is composed by infinite universes, with each universe being composed by a timeline that allows for infinite future points in time (and therefore that timeline is infinite in length), the fact stands that even an infinite amount of infinitely-sized universes cannot fill the space the Nightmare Realm fills, or else the Nightmare Realm would just be another universe, which Ford explicitly says it isn’t. To formalize this argument even further, if one could imagine an infinite set of infinite-sized four-dimensional universes, any space that is four-dimensional must necessarily exist in this set, as it would be one possible existence for a four-dimensional space out of an infinity of possible existences, and as this set would be infinite, the possible existence would exist within that set. Given the fact that the Nightmare Realm does not exist within that set, as it is not just another universe, it follows the idea that the Nightmare Realm must be a space that is even beyond the set of infinite infinitely-large four-dimensional spaces, or a fifth-dimensional space. More information is given in the dimensional tiering section.

  • In addition to this, the rift would have likely actually affected much more than just the regular universe. He ripped open the rift (the rip in space-time), which was going to destroy all of existence according to the Time Baby, and he sustained this same rip, as his defeat directly led to the destruction of the rift. "Existence" in this context means the completely totality of everything that exists, and as Time Baby referred to their dimension locally before saying it posed a threat to existence (If your rip in this dimension continues) - and since the rip was literally a gateway between their dimension and the bulk space of the whole multiverse, it makes sense that it was referring to the whole cosmology. In addition, Ford has claimed that Bill Cipher posed a threat to the whole multiverse before, and in the Gravity Falls comic we see that Weirdmageddon was actually affecting alternate realities.


So to recap: Bill at minimum is a trillion times more powerful than the baseline mass-energy of the universe, and was casually sustaining a rip in space-time (the rift) which was eventually going to obliterate the entirety of an infinitely large four-dimensional space, with the only capability of escaping that destruction being the idea of leaving space-time entirely and entering into a higher dimensional space. This of course pales in comparison to Bill’s most powerful showing, which is scaling above the portal in energy capacity, which was capable of shaking an entire volume which is larger than infinite infinitely-large four-dimensional universes, constituting a fifth-dimensional space. 


Q: But isn’t Discord at minimum infinite multiversal, as well? Wouldn’t that at least mean he isn’t stomped by Bill without dimensional tiering? 


A: Well, no. Discord is not infinite multiversal. There are two main arguments used to scale Discord to infinite multiversal, which Bill easily matches and exceeds, being the fact that the Pony of Shadows was stated to be able to make every reality "empty", and Luna merging an infinite sized hallway when she merges dreams together. We will begin with the Pony of Shadows (PoS) feat, as it requires less contextual knowledge and is fairly easy to debunk:


This statement comes from an annual issue of the My Little Pony IDW comics in 2018 (images above), where the Pillars of Equestria are tasked to go into another universe where they encounter another Pony of Shadows, different from the one they have known before. The obvious issue with this feat is the fact that, when PoS says "I'll overrun every reality and make it as empty and corrupted as mine", by his reality, he was referring to the universe that they are currently in. And wouldn't you know it, it's blatantly not actually destroyed. PoS simply wiped out civilization and made it twisted and corrupted. This is even reiterated in a future comic, where Luna goes into Stygian's dream of this very event and PoS says that he hoped to bring shadow and destruction to every world as he brought to this one:



PoS did say that Celestia and Luna had an infinite power for destruction, but given the phrasing he was more than likely referring to their potential to cause destruction rather than their energy levels. Even if we accepted such statements as justifying infinite multiversal power… Bill has one of these statements too. As does Kirby, and even Bendy from Bendy and the Ink Machine. It is simply not a very good tiering justification to use.


As for the other argument for Luna merging the infinite hallways, it requires a bit of cosmology explanation, so hang in there. In My Little Pony, every person has a "mindscape" and in this mindscape there exists a space called the infinite hallway, which contains every possible decision they can make in their future, as well as past memories or dreams. Dreams in MLP are created by moon spirits called the Nyx, who conjure dreams as an external construct that are then externally implanted in a Pony's mind when they sleep.



It is important to note that a singular dream does not encompass the entirety of a pony's mindscape. Not only are they created as external sources, but in MLP Season 5 Episode 4 "Bloom and Gloom", we see that dreams and the hallway are explicitly different spaces altogether. Here is a diagram to show what we mean:

The large circle in the center is a pony's mindscape, while the purple block above is the Nyx. The blue circles are all different dreams, while the red oval is the hallway. Notice how the dreams are not encompassing the hallway, but are instead different subsections of their mind?


You might also be surprised to hear this, but Luna has never actually merged any dreams before. In MLP Season 5 Episode 13, Luna has to create a massive dream involving everyone in Ponyville in order to entrap the tantabus, a parasitic dream entity. However, she never actually says anything about merging dreams or their mindscapes, this is purely conjecture. Similarly, there is an argument that she physically merges the hallways in Bloom and Gloom, but his is also never stated to happen. All she does is present some past nightmares of Scootaloo and Sweetie Bell to Applebloom with different doors, which does not require merging the entire spaces together - she even creates a door in this space right after leading to a different dream where the whole CMC were. None of this necessitates a merger of infinite spaces, and if we were to be technical, this space is never actually called the infinite hallway either—it is only being presumed so because they are somewhat similar in appearance. Overall, the evidence for infinite multiversal My Little Pony is pretty weak, and relies completely on conjecture and either ignoring or misinterpreting context.


Without this however, Discord should still pretty safely be universal in power, but it is magnitudes below the scale that Bill operates at. Even without dimensional tiering, Bill is still infinitely superior to the draconequus. 


When it comes to speed, Bill isn’t a slouch either. He should be far faster than Discord when it comes to finite values, given the fact that Bill was able to fly across space in a short amount of time across planets and galaxies, and should scale above Ford being able to move his body despite being the size of a galaxy. For a more in-depth breakdown of Bill’s speed, one could aggregate the most impressive showings as one did for his own power, with some overlap:


  • Bill was able to open the rift with his own powers, which poured the Nightmare Realm into the real universe in finite time, with the Nightmare Realm being beyond standard laws of causality and linear time. As such, Bill was specifically able to use his powers to move an infinite space which is unbound by the laws of time into a space bound by the laws of time. This would require Bill to have the power necessitated to move an infinite amount of volume into a smaller volume (therefore constituting distance) despite the first volume having an infinitely larger temporal dimension, insofar as time doesn’t just need to move forward (and therefore doesn’t need to exist on one dimension). As such, Bill specifically would be operating on infinite levels of attack speed. 

  • The rift, which was operating on Bill’s power, was able to affect the entire future of the timeline from the present, and was going to destroy the entire universe, with the only mode of escape being the ability to escape the linearity of time and enter the fifth-dimension, which is stepping ‘outside’ the fourth-dimension. As such, Bill’s powers were able to specifically affect the entire infinitely-large timeline in a manner which is not bound by linearity, correlating with infinite or immeasurable speed. 

  • Bill was able to push volume from the Nightmare Realm, which explicitly is within space that is inexhaustible by infinite infinitely-large four-dimensional universes, into a four-dimensional space. As such, Bill would be pushing a space that is infinitely large into another space within finite time, and as any fraction of an infinite space is infinite, this too would be infinite or immeasurable speed.

  • Bill should scale above the temporal control of the time police (as he gained total control over time after he had killed Time Baby), which means his power over time with his own innate energy and magic exceeds even the time travel abilities of time travelers like Blendin, whose time machines are comparable to hyperdrives such as Mabel’s space racer, which could exit the fourth-dimension entirely. As such, Bill’s own power over time, and his ability to affect the entire timeline and things outside it in finite time, with this power being able to even exceed the capacity to leave the fourth-dimension, would constitute infinite or immeasurable speed.

  • Bill should be comparable to the portal in pure energy as before noted, and the portal was energetic enough to shake and affect the entire Nightmare Realm, which is an infinitely larger higher-dimensional space beyond the laws of linear time. As such, Bill would scale to the portal in its capacity to carry energy-densities across infinite and immeasurable distances. 

  • Finally, Bill in the official Reddit AMA was capable of computing his actions in infinite possible universes when it came to divergences to one question. As such, infinite computational speed would require infinite or immeasurable reaction speed, if we assume Bill is at least comparable in his reciprocality of perception and reaction times to humans.


Q: But isn’t Discord immeasurable, too? 


A: No, not exactly. Most of Discord’s ‘immeasurable’ feats or instances of scaling are not exactly applicable. When it comes to Discord moving into the past week due to ‘going too fast’, he was specifically doing this within a meteor containing ‘two tons of anachronistic crystals’, with the word  ‘anachronistic’ meaning something that is chronologically out of place, or outside its necessitated linear location in time. As such, if you take Discord’s babbling seriously, you cannot constitute this feat directly to just Discord’s speed, as there is a variable that specifically could add to the explanation for why Discord was time displaced, which he himself considers as one of the reasons for such a displacement. His remark of ‘flying too fast’ also could just be the facilitator for the crystals to work, such as how Doc Brown had to go 88 miles per hour in Back to the Future to time travel. Speaking of Back to the Future, there is an additional feat of Rainbow Dash moving through time upon being struck by lightning, but this specifically lends to the fact that time travel in MLP could be through variables that act as facilitators to time travel instead of this time travel being through speed in and of itself. Despite the fact that lightning causing time travel is just a pop-culture reference (as before noted), the very idea of this constituting immeasurable speed is ludicrous, specifically because Rainbow Dash’s speed plus the energy of the lightning bolt must have created the effect of traveling through time, despite lightning bolts being themselves finite in energy. As such, one would have to either say Rainbow Dash’s speed was finite and adding another finite energy source (the lightning bolt) allowed for the necessitated energy value to time travel (which does not need to be infinite, as different laws of physics necessitate different energy values for time travel. In real life, time travel can be achieved through traveling past the speed of light) which would make Rainbow Dash’s speed finite, or one would have to posit that Rainbow Dash’s speed was already infinite and adding a finite source of energy allowed her to time travel, but this is nonsensical, due to the reason that infinity plus some finite value is the same infinity. The only other option would be the idea that Rainbow Dash’s speed was finite, while the lightning bolt was infinite in energy, or both were infinite, which is nonsensical, since that assumes that mundane lightning bolts in MLP are infinite in energy value and hence the clouds that produce them are also infinite in energy-density, which would create infinite multiversal atmospheres and planets and oceans.


Q: But what about Cosmos existing in Limbo, which is a timeless void? Or the Pony of Shadows moving across all realities, which are infinite? 


A: Simply existing in a timeless void does not make you immeasurable in speed, due to the fact that one’s internal physiology could allow for that to happen (and hence just be resistance to time erasure or time manipulation), and also the fact that introducing something which inherently contains temporal properties to a place without temporal properties does not mean that the temporal properties would be snuffed out by the non-temporal properties, for the same reason why shining a light into a dark room wouldn’t negate the light simply because the room was dark. Additionally, both Dipper and Mabel in the CYOA book were capable of existing within a timeless void with the Axolotl, despite the fact that they are average humans, alongside the fact that the entirety of the town of Gravity Falls was able to move around during Weirdmaggedon despite the fact that time had stopped moving and was effectively ‘dead’ forever. Both of these facts do not mean average humans in Gravity Falls are ‘immeasurable’ in speed, just that there is some generalizable property to temporally bound objects which can introduce temporality when there otherwise isn’t any. This does not make existing within a non-temporal void ‘immeasurable’ in any way, though. 


As for the Pony of Shadows feat, there is no indication that the PoS would have gone to every reality in finite time, as all the PoS said was that he would attempt to overrun every reality and make every reality as corrupted as one that had its civilizations destroyed. It would be identical to saying, ‘I will go to every house and tell its denizens xyz’, with the person saying this obviously only referring to the houses they can access instead of every house in existence. In the same way, PoS indicating that he would go to every reality and corrupt them only means the realities he has the capacity to corrupt in the first place, with this capacity not necessarily being infinite in speed. To assume that this capacity is infinite would be to question beg, insofar as, ‘we know PoS is capable of infinitely going to every reality, so therefore he is infinite speed’, instead of saying ‘PoS is saying ‘every reality’ when it comes to every reality he is personally able to affect’,  which is more in line with Occam’s razor in not multiplying objects unnecessarily. In fact, in this instance, someone assuming PoS must be infinite speed in order to corrupt every reality he is capable of affecting is multiplying objects infinitely, since there’s no indication that the PoS is able to infinitely cross universes except by assuming that ‘every reality’ he is capable of affecting includes the set of every reality ever, and not just the ones he would be able to affect personally, which presuppositionally has to be finite until otherwise shown.


As such, Bill is infinitely stronger and faster than Discord, and would also necessarily be infinitely more durable, due to the fact that the energies which power his attacks are also the energies that supply his durability.

Arsenal & Abilities

Bill and Discord’s abilities are able to counteract each other in multiple ways, but the more important thing for this verdict is how Bill reacts to Discord’s abilities in particular, and then secondly how Discord would react to Bill’s. When listing out all of Discord’s abilities, one should be able to easily see that Bill wouldn’t really have any trouble at all in negating most of Discord’s abilities, while Discord would still be liable in being affected by some of Bill’s:

  • Most of Discord’s ‘mundane powers’, such as transmutation, elemental manipulation, and mental manipulation are counteracted by Bill’s own ability to shapeshift, control matter and energy, and nullify even the mental energies of his opponents (as shown in Dreamscaperers, when the embodiment of Dipper and Mabel’s minds were able to fight Bill in the mindscape, while Bill was able to nullify all their abilities once he got annoyed). 

  • Discord’s more ‘esoteric powers’ like plot manipulation and reducing things in dimensionality are counteracted by Bill’s own abilities to exist beyond the framework of the show through manipulating the genre of the animation and the animations within the show and their voice-lines, drawing on the real life analog of the Journal, with this drawing being on the page of Alex Hirsch’s acknowledgement to the reader, as well as Bill even possessing his creator in Alex Hirsch during the official Reddit AMA. Discord’s ability to reduce things in dimensionality (well, not exactly reduce things in dimensionality, all he did was reduce things to cardboard cutouts, which is technically just transmutation, as cardboard cutouts are still three-dimensional, just very lacking in depth compared to other substances) would be countered by the fact that Bill through the Weirdness bubbles was able to turn Dipper and Wendy live action in their physical substances, and therefore actually three-dimensional. This is also supported by the fact that Bill was able to recreate Rumble during Weirdmaggedon, despite the fact that Rumble was previously fictionalized and infinitely below three-dimensional beings like Dipper and Mabel until he was actualized into higher-dimensional reality, with Weirdmaggedon ending (and therefore Bill’s powers being cut off) resulting in Rumble being fictionalized again. 

  • Bill also completely counters BFR, as if one assumes this fight happens during Weirdmaggedon, Bill would have the ability to open and close portals into any world as he wishes. He was only limited initially due to lacking a physical body and hence having to just interact with a two-dimensional mental form, if he is three-dimensional (and can keep himself three-dimensional as already proven), he would have all the powers he has in the Nightmare Realm, which includes being able to travel to any dimension as the Nightmare Realm is the nexus between every possible universe. In addition to this, his soul can freely travel between dimensions and the mindscape at will, allowing him a somewhat roundabout way of dimensional travel.

  • Bill, additionally, also completely resists Discord’s abilities of power nullification and also the stone sleep spell, as Bill was able to perform against the Shacktron despite the Shacktron being able to nullify  weirdness energy of things surrounding it. Additionally, if you consider the Nightmare  Realm as being infinitely larger than an infinite four-dimensional multiverse, or even that Discord isn’t infinite multiversal, then technically Bill’s magic would be infinitely above any magic the Bell has ever absorbed before, meaning that assuming the Bell could work on Bill would be a no-limits fallacy. In other words, since Bill’s energy would be infinitely above the aggregate of all magic in the MLP Multiverse, assuming that the bell would work on Bell would be like assuming a vacuum could pick up an infinite amount of dirt in an infinitely long carpet because it was able to pick up a finite amount of dirt in a finitely long carpet. Additionally, when it comes to the stone sleep spell, the petrification itself isn't what makes it "layered", since Discord did actually break out of it, so it's dependent on the magical ability of the caster. When the magic energy from the elements was weakened, Discord was able to break out, so you could make an argument that if Bill were to exceed Discord in power and reality warping he could break out while Discord couldn’t. Aside from that, it's only demonstrated to be "layered" when used by the Elements against Discord, which might be different from Discord using it against someone else, as the Elements are specifically tailored against Discord rather than any other person due to their specific essences being antithetical to his essence. Also given the fact that Discord could only perform this spell with three other ponies present, it is arguable that Discord possibly couldn’t cast the spell without outside help.


Q: But what about regeneration? Isn’t Discord a personification of a concept, therefore having conceptual regeneration? Doesn’t he also derive strength from chaos?


A: No. This is derived by an episode where Discord starts to stop existing due to the fact that he ceases to do chaotic activity, but this doesn’t mean he can regenerate from just being chaotic, or that he’s the embodiment of chaos itself. To sum up what happened in this episode, one just needs a few points of context: 

  • Discord is a chaotic spirit, so doing something antithetical to his own nature as a chaotic spirit would kill him.

  • Discord therefore was slowly killing himself due to doing things antithetical to his nature, but Fluttershy tried to stop his death by doing things congruent with his true nature so that Discord would realize his true nature again and stop himself from dying.

  • At the end, Fluttershy succeeds and Discord realizes his true nature as a chaotic spirit, and comes back into existence due to this realization.

Discord in no way is ‘regenerating’ due to just chaos existing, he is coming back into synch due to the fact that he realizes his utility function is actually to maximize chaos in his agency instead of being orderly. It would be identical for a human to stop doing his utility function (maintaining homeostasis) and therefore dying, such as ‘turning yourself on fire’, which is something antithetical to the essence or definition of a human being at large. Discord also does not gain power from chaos being caused by others (and the very fact that others can participate in chaos without being Discord proves that Discord isn’t the ‘concept’ of chaos, either), as shown with Cosmos. Instead, Discord is a particularized individual within the universal of ‘chaos’, and cannot exist except through maximizing his own utility function which is being chaotic in his agency. He gains his power, his strength, from doing things that are congruent with his utility function as a spirit whose essence (or definition) is chaos. It’s identical to someone gaining their strength through maximizing their utility function, insofar as someone like an economist gains their ‘strength’ (their wealth) through pursuing their agency with regard to the economy. This just means Discord is a participant in some universal (chaos), where he gains his strength through being a particular congruent with that universal. As his telos. It says nothing of the idea that Discord is that universal, because otherwise every single person who commits chaos anywhere would be identical to the individual of Discord.


Q: What about Accord?


A: Accord only existed in every pony who desired order since they were all mind-controlled by him to desire order. If Accord was the true ‘concept of order’ he wouldn’t need to mind control anyone to exist in their minds as order, he would just exist there in the first place due to being the concept of order. 


Meanwhile Bill actually has better regeneration. He was able to regenerate from his soul, and more specifically, the idea of his existence (as ideas are the only things that exist within minds, or the mindscape) during Dreamscaperers. The only way Bill was specifically defeated was through the entire medium of ideas being destroyed, hence there being no space for any ideas to exist or regenerate from. But even then, Bill was capable of returning eventually, as seen in the DVD box set wherein Bill reveals his fate as being transformed into a DVD box set for eternity, but even then he is able to get out through making a deal with the viewer. As such, Bill would have better regeneration.


Q: Okay, but how can Bill kill Discord, then? What abilities does he have which allow him to do such a thing? 


A: Bill should be able to definitely erase Discord’s soul, and even further, the very idea of his existence. As Bill was able to erase the mindscape during Dreamscaperers and even blow holes in Dipper’s mindscape-self, Bill would be able to instantly obliterate Discord’s spirit and the mental image that corresponds to his existence, so his noetic self, or ideal consciousness, which is what exists within the mindscape. Bill should also just be able to erase Discord from existence, or even manipulate his utility function as he did to Dipper through Dippy Fresh, therefore killing him. He also would have the advantage in gaining the information on how to kill Discord, as he has much better precognitive abilities with regard to seeing infinite timelines. Although one might object to this statement by indicating that there probably aren’t copies of Bill throughout the multiverse (via an argument from silence, as in, ‘we don’t see alternate Bills meaning there aren’t any’), despite the fact that this isn’t true. In the CYOA book, an alternate reality Dipper and Mabel know who Bill is and ask the Axolotl about him, meaning that alternate Bills exist in the multiverse. 


Q: Doesn’t Discord have layered madness manipulation? Couldn’t he turn Bill mad?


A: No, Bill specifically could reduce Ford to madness and paranoia for decades (as shown by his psychotic ramblings in Journal 3) despite the fact that Ford was able to exist in the Nightmare Realm, which could reduce Fiddleford into insanity, despite Fiddleford being more intelligent and mentally stable compared to other cast members like Dipper who could resist madness bubbles. 


Q: Couldn’t Discord kill Bill if Bill entered Discord’s mind? 


A: Theoretically, but this would also involve Discord knowing the exact specifics of how to defeat Bill, as Bill could also do the same if Discord entered his mind (as Bill can manipulate memories and ideas himself). This would also likely completely kill Discord while Bill could theoretically come back through the Axolotl incantation and time travel back to the fight, while Discord would be incapable of doing this. Bill also doesn’t enter people’s minds unless they have pieces of information he requires, which wouldn’t be the case in a Death Battle, unless that information was involving Discord’s own weaknesses, which Bill could retrieve through his own infinite precognitive powers.

Tertiary Factors

Bill and Discord both have very powerful abilities, however neither of them have actually shown a very specific or knowledgeable method of fighting - despite this, there is one very important area of this fight that we definitely can gleam an advantage out of, and it's not for the spirit of chaos. 


Bill Cipher is a lot smarter than Discord, and it shouldn't be terribly complex to see why. The greatest showings of intelligence in MLP involve creating portals or new methods of magic, but Bill is very directly smarter than Ford, who broke the laws of thermodynamics by creating a perpetual motion machine while he was still in high school, has 12 PhDs, and was able to create an infinitely long belt - Bill himself is directly smarter than Ford, and was able to create a portal with higher dimensional calculus - he was even able to teach this to ancient egyptians and native Americans, who didn't even utilize electricity yet. Bill has also been able to perceive and process an infinite amount of universes, and has been conquering the Nightmare Realm, supposedly using his powers, for a trillion years. By contrast, Discord has only provably been around for a little more than a thousand years, during most of which he was encased in stone and immobile. Disregarding that, it would mean Bill has been around messing things up for a billion times longer than Discord. To put that into perspective, the average lifespan of a human is only a thousand times more than that of the average house fly (A house fly will live for about 28-29 days, and a human on average lives for 28,835 days). 


To add onto that, while both have been tricked before, Bill has been tricking and manipulating the greatest minds in history for thousands of years - it's kind of his whole thing. Discord is smart, but he's not above underestimating his opponents. Even in the final season of the show and the g5 comics, he still underestimates the villains and the main cast. Bill has a tendency to underestimate others too, but he's also quite proactive with what he wants to do - if he wants someone to die, he's not going to goof around as much as Discord, they are most likely going to die. Add all of this onto his precognitive abilities, and Bill solidly takes the advantage when it comes to tertiary factors.


Conclusion

"Remember… Reality is an illusion! The universe is a hologram! BUY GOLD! BYE!"

Advantages:

  • Infinitely stronger and faster, even without dimensional tiering 

  • With dimensional tiering, would be multiple sets of infinities above Discord in strength and speed

  • Infinitely better AOE and range when it comes to his abilities 

  • Much better regeneration, can eventually even come back from being erased as an idea, while Discord can otherwise be killed as a spirit

  • Exponential power growth as weirdness spreads through reality would make the power differential even larger

  • Any method Discord could use to kill Bill could also kill Discord, with Bill being more likely to discover those methods than vice-versa

  • Much better information analysis and precognitive powers

  • Negates effectively all of Discord’s more mundane abilities such as reality, matter, space, time, and energy manipulation

  • Has work-arounds for Discord’s more esoteric abilities, such as plot and dimensional manipulation, as well as his own equivalents

  • Has arguable work-arounds to Discord’s biggest possible win conditions, like the bell and the stone sleep spell

  • Much more intelligent and cunning, more likely to trick Discord than the other way around

  • Would likely be able to utilize Discord’s own arsenal against him due to speed difference and precognition

  • More experience in conquering and being purposefully malevolent, thus more willing to kill

  • Is one of the premiere Tumblr Sexymen

  • Neil Cicierega


Disadvantages:


  • Smaller arsenal and pool of equipment

  • Less showings of pure versatility

  • Less on-screen combat showcasing

  • Could theoretically be killed by Discord through memory erasure if Bill ends up in Discord’s head

  • Other abilities of Discord’s could work on Bill in a way to Bill’s detriment, hypothetically including the stone sleep spell

  • Taco Bell

  • Has a reddit account 


This matchup appears complicated, and it is at a certain level in regard to shifting through everything, but ultimately Bill has the more solid advantages. He matches and surpasses every physical argument you can make for Discord with his more solid feats and statements, he is far smarter and trickier, and he even, surprisingly, manages to match up with Discord’s wide array of abilities and effects on reality. Even if the two were to be equalized in power and speed, Bill manages to hold his own far better than you'd think, thanks to his resistances, better showings of actual soul NPI, and precognition. Discord's really only reliable win condition here is the stone sleep spell, but as mentioned previously, it is entirely possible for Bill to resist its effects - meanwhile, Discord has nothing to counter Bill simply obliterating his soul beyond a point it has shown to come back from. Looks like Discord got triang-owned….


The winner is Bill Cipher.


Team Discord

Stats

Discord should be the MVP here. His strength gets him way higher than Bill without Dimensional tiering, his speed feats are more consistent, and he's shown better resilience to anything Bill has been shown to put out. In a physical fight, Bill wouldn't even be able to hurt Discord; he operates on a much higher multiversal scale than Bill, and his clearer speed feats could prove superiority in a battle.


A physical brawl is very unlikely with this encounter though. Both are very cunning, and neither can be defeated by traditional means. Bill exists in a weird state of quantum uncertainty and is semi-corporeal, but Discord’s entire existence is tied to the concept of chaos.


Let’s go by each stat here:


Speed: Discord likely scales to immeasurable speed through multiple different feats and characters. His travel speed scales to his combat and reaction speed, since he reacted to Cosmos tearing through the space-time of Limbo and his realm to get to his home; and there's no reason to assume his energy beams and other magical abilities aren't at least the same speed as his flying, since it's all coming from his magic which is a life-force that is necessary for all of his abilities. He also once flew so fast he went back a week in time, which should be immeasurable in nature. Discord should also scale above the Pony of Shadows who was able to absorb all of the light in the sky, and was going to physically go to every reality and destroy them. His speed should be above Celestia’s dream wave, which was able to affect multiple dreams at the same time across Equestria.


As you can see, Discord just has numerous arguments to get him to unquantifiable speed, enabling him to keep up just fine even if Bill does receive infinite speed from any hypothetical rift scaling. And without unquantifiable ends, Discord should safely dominate. Really all of Bill’s quantifiable higher end speed feats come from a hypothetical projection that is already rather suspect, and Team Discord does not feel they should safely be trusted anytime soon. Bill has no feats to back these projections at all, making it even more questionable just how much they should really be trusted. And even then, it’s questionable if Bill’s combat speed would really just scale to a galaxy sized Ford moving his head or any potential rift explosions on the fabric of reality. Without that, Discord simply has much safer and reliable arguments and is just numerous times faster, likely enough to completely blitz Bill with great ease. Discord just has all the safer arguments when it comes down to speed.


Stamina: His stamina should be infinite. He can keep fighting so long as he creates chaos or there is chaos around him, and it's stated in the season 10 comics that he's never needed to go back to his realm to "top-up" on magic. He was able to beat Pinkie Pie in a Cuckoo Cook-Off without getting tired out, and she had the power of his chaos dimension on her side.


Power: Believe it or not, it is quite likely that the Lord of Chaos has what it takes to defeat Bill in the contest of power. Or at least, make it where power is too close to really matter for Bill in the slightest. Bill Cipher on his own doesn’t really have all that much to speak of in terms of direct feats. He could destroy the second dimension, and maybe eat a planet. And even the latter was a hypothetical projection we never actually saw him do. Regardless, it’s not much compared to a being that casually moves the sun multiple times in a row through orbit over and over. Or creates pocket dimensions filled with numerous stars and planets far off in the distance. It’s not terribly difficult to see who holds the edge when going over direct feats.


But of course, there’s also scaling. One could maybe argue that Bill Cipher scales to the rift that shook the Nightmare Realm, which has been argued would give him fifth to eleventh dimensional power in turn. But ultimately, Team Discord feels this argument is questionable and can be countered regardless. For starters, just because Bill Cipher was killed didn’t mean the end of everything in Weirdmaggedon. The rift notably took quite some time to close and undo everything, taking a while to suck the various monsters up and also restore everything to normal. On top of that, even after Bill died, various portals and rifts continued to show up throughout Gravity Falls, to the point that Ford had to go and work on sealing them all up. If Bill Cipher was truly sustaining all of this, then there wouldn’t really be any further issues after the triangle’s demise at the hands of Stanley Pines. As such, it is difficult to fully scale Cipher to the Rift's power.


But now, it's time to talk about… ugh, cosmology…


Is the Nightmare Realm 5D? Well, probably not. The idea is that the Nightmare Realm transcends and encompasses the multiverse, giving it access to every dimension. However, looking at the official model gives us a different idea. The model shows the Realm with wormholes that lead outside of it. Take a wild guess what those wormholes lead to. That's right: the other dimensions. So the Nightmare Realm is less likely a massive plane of existence outside of our own somehow housing different worlds despite also needing wormholes to get there(?) and more likely a universe sized dimension that has ways to access the other dimensions (like Another Dimension in Kirby).


And even if we did say Bill had higher dimensional AP, it really just would not matter. Discord has been able to battle and defeat Cosmos multiple times, who has been called an extradimensional creature. This essentially gives Discord experience dealing with these exact sorts of problems, and he’s come out on top every time. And of course, what stops Discord from just turning Bill 2D? He’s shown to be able to remove mathematical dimensions from other dimensional objects, and turn them 2D. Then Bill would lack that 3D power he VERY specifically needed in Weirdmageddon (bro literally shouts it in the first scene). So no matter what you buy for Bill, Discord always has a solid counter to deal with Cipher at any level of power.


Ultimately, Team Discord does feel that the Lord of Chaos has what he needs to claim the edge in raw power. His arguments are much safer to make, and he has solid counters across the board to nullify any hypothetical arguments one could make for Bill Cipher. No matter what level you place Bill at, there will always be something for Discord that can enable him to match Bill’s power, if not surpass it outright. There’s also the fact that Discord will continue to grow stronger through the chaos this fight would cause, so even if Bill was stronger than him, he’d eventually grow stronger than Bill.


Durability: Discord has insane durability, able to regenerate his body from any kind of physical attack and even independently move his body parts without the rest of his body. He’s taken his body apart in multiple ways, such as separating himself both horizontally and vertically, breaking into bits, taking his head off, turning to dust, tearing apart his head to dodge a beam from Tirek, turning to stone and shattering, and has brushed all of this off. He’s not even made of actual matter, we know this because Fluttershy called him a creature of pure chaos, his makeup is chaos entirely. He can maintain all his powers as an astral projection, or a "ghost". This would of course mean that he should be able to regenerate his spirit, as there is no difference between his normal state and astral state in terms of power and ability, other than being non-physical and intangible. Low to mid godly is a good range to judge his durability, but that is without conceptual immortality. With conceptual immortality, he will exist so long as the concept of chaos exists, this would make him outright impossible to kill for Bill without him erasing the concept of chaos entirely. Though for all intents and purposes, Discord can still be defeated if hit hard enough.


Intelligence: Intelligence would be high since he knows the math and technical science to create his time machine; the RPG feat of him having eyes and ears everywhere and having heard and seen everything ever said should be good enough to say that he can replicate any kind of knowledge reality has to offer, past, present, and future. This includes all spells shown and all math and science created. He's deceived entire nations into going to war with each other (Season 10 comics), and can manipulate ponies into betraying their nature.

Arsenal & Abilities

Let’s face it. The likely biggest matter of discussion for fighters like this will always be how their arsenals and powers collide. And ultimately, in this clash between reality warpers of the highest caliber, Team Discord feels that the Lord of Chaos has what it takes to claim the edge in this category by a noteworthy margin.


Naturally, the two counteract each other in a lot of ways. Both of them can control the world in all sorts of ways, so it stands to reason that there are going to be many powers that can cancel each other out. But that’s where Bill Cipher runs into a significant problem. He is simply outnumbered and outgunned in terms of raw powers and win-conditions with this duel.


Who cares what powers Bill has when the Bewitching Bell can drain that power away, if not kill Bill on the spot? There’s not really anything Bill can do to stop the Bell, so long as their power is comparable (which Team Discord feels it should be) then the Bell should be a reliable option to win immediately. Sure, the totem attacking the Mystery Shack barrier lost its powers and Bill didn’t when fighting Shacktron, but even the totem took quite some time for that to happen. It’s quite likely the Bell can easily overcome some potential (if existing at all) resistances Bill might have to power nullification. And remember, Bill had his powers shut down when he was killed by Stanley Pines, so something like this can clearly work. Grogar’s Bewitching Bell will absolutely have the power needed to do the job and defeat Bill. Bill’s power has been described as magic multiple times in the series, and it should be comparable to Discord’s magic in that in MLP magic is energy and life force. Bill is made of pure energy, which the bell should be able to absorb.


But wait, Discord has more! There’s also the Stone Sleep spell. This power is capable of completely sealing Bill away, shutting down his options of continuing the fight reliably. Remember, Discord is also capable of astral projection and acting without a body, and he couldn’t overcome his petrification for a thousand years. There’s no reason Bill Cipher should be off any better at all. And given the seal is passive, Discord is free to hit Bill Cipher with it, and the passive seal can handle the rest. Sure, Bill could potentially come back a thousand years later, maybe, but that’s more than long enough to qualify as a victory for the Lord of Chaos. Assuming Bill isn’t destroyed while stuck as a very nice looking lawn ornament. This way, Bill Cipher is defeated, and Equestria picks up some of the finest decor possible! 


(Bill Cipher lawn ornaments are not refundable and G1^2 does not accept returns. Please use it responsibly. Or graffiti it. We don’t really care.)


And then of course we must also remember to account for the power amplification these two fighters have. One could argue that Bill Cipher can have his power grow from Weirdmaggedon. But Discord is a creature of chaos, and this fight is going to be an absolute feast of chaos for our favorite draconequus. Remember, Discord can gain energy from chaos in all forms, not just his own. Otherwise, Fluttershy wouldn’t have been able to save him from fading away in Discordant Harmony just by moving some furniture around and making funny faces to bring him back (Team Discord also recommends this episode to all readers, it’s a very good watch). As such, this means Discord will be harvesting power both from himself, and from Weirdmaggedon. Bill Cipher might be gaining power from his apocalypse, but Discord is just going to be receiving even more power. And if a few pieces of furniture could bring him back to peak power in just a few seconds, imagine what something like Weirdmaggedon can do for him! Really any way you slice it, Discord’s power will be growing at a massively superior rate compared to Bill, as everything the battle does just creates a stronger cycle of energy for the Lord of Chaos to feed off of. And no matter what Bill does, he can’t stop this. Discord can just make more chaos. As such, Discord is pretty much always going to win any extended conflicts, as he will be growing stronger at an exponentially superior rate compared to his triangular foe, no matter what Bill Cipher does.


And of course, we also have likely the best well known option for Discord, erasing Bill. Let’s just face the facts. A good existence erasure will absolutely put Bill Cipher down, no buts about it. This is canonically how he met his final fate, and any potential rescue from the Axolotl would take far too long for it to matter in a Death Battle, assuming Bill even did survive. Should Discord manage to erase Bill Cipher, then that’s the match. And Discord’s been shown to be capable of this quite reliably. With his powers in the mindscape or his feats performed throughout the show, it’s quite likely that Discord has the skills and abilities necessary to delete Bill Cipher from existence, just like Ford and Stanley managed to do. As such, this is actually an incredibly reliable option for Discord to claim the victory over Bill, just like the others we have listed above.


But we’ve clearly established that Discord has numerous ways to topple Bill Cipher, but can the same be said for Bill? Team Discord personally does not feel that Bill really has any solid ways to keep Discord down reliably. Sure, Bill potentially has soul attacks, but Discord was able to survive coming back from nonexistence (even with his soul) just thanks to Fluttershy being slightly chaotic. It’s highly unlikely that Bill can just crush Discord’s soul just like that. And on top of that, Discord can also attack and destroy souls as well, so at best, this power just ends up canceling out. Coming back from nearly fading away entirely is certainly superior to regenerating parts of your spirit, giving Discord superior regeneration and making it nigh-on impossible for Bill Cipher to truly destroy Discord.


What of precognition and other such arguments? While these things certainly can be argued, it’s unlikely that they’re really all that great, certainly not enough to overcome someone like Discord. Bill Cipher has been taken by surprise numerous times in the past, even by the most ordinary threats imaginable. His precog clearly is not passive at absolute best, and it’s likely that it would not be enough to stop Discord from being able to overcome Bill. And again, Discord has been able to recognize things ahead of time as well, so they would likely cancel out. 


(For a character who “sees everything” he shouts “WHAT!?” and “NO!” pretty often.) 


On top of all that, Discord just happens to resist a lot of what Bill Cipher is capable of doing. Bill’s time stop has never really been shown stopping sentient beings like Discord’s has, and various powers can come with issues like having to make a Deal. Discord suffers no such limitations, making it where he’s always free to select a power however he pleases and unleash it against Bill Cipher to claim a victory no matter what. And even then, the above listed powers are just really a taste of how all Discord can dismantle Bill Cipher. Any way you slice it, Discord just absolutely dominates the field of powers and abilities. Any power Bill has can be matched, and there are far too many tricks in Discord’s arsenal for Bill to be able to deal with. Discord just holds all the cards here, taking this category with great ease.

Tertiary Factors

In the subject of tertiary factors, it is quite likely that the Lord of Chaos once again takes the edge. Of course, we certainly cannot ignore the intelligence of a foe like Bill Cipher. He’s spent eons manipulating human history, constantly working to outsmart the most brilliant of minds in reality time and time again. But Discord is certainly capable of keeping up just fine. My Little Pony’s draconequus has been capable of manipulating all sorts of forces large and small time and time again, setting up long and extensive plots that consistently manage to work out surprisingly well, even with some bumps on the road. And ultimately, Discord tends to be ready with more contingencies and counterplans for if something truly does go wrong, unlike Bill Cipher, who generally has to reset some progress in the face of a challenge. As such, while Bill certainly has fearsome intelligence, it’s quite likely that Discord is perfectly capable of keeping up, to the point that it is unlikely that Bill can really rely on his knowledge or cunning to reliably score victories against Discord.


And then there’s the matter of experience, which Discord absolutely dominates. Sure, Bill Cipher is older for all we know anyway, but how much of that time has been spent fighting? You could argue he destroyed the 2D dimension and also battled Time Baby and the Shacktron, but that’s about it. The point is, Bill Cipher has never battled anything even remotely comparable to him, let alone with powers that can eclipse his own movepool. This is just a battle that Bill will have no experience or past fights to look back on for ideas on how to operate.


On the other side of the field, a battle against Bill is really just another battle through reality for Discord. The ranks of My Little Pony’s cast and crew is chock full of absurdly powerful characters all over the place. The Royal Sisters Celestia and Luna, Princess Cadance, Twilight Sparkle, the Elements of Harmony, King Sombra, Lord Tirek, Queen Chrysalis, Cozy Glow, Eris the Goddess of Luck, the Bookworm, the Knights of Order, and even the Lord of Malice, Cosmos! Discord has essentially done battle against what is My Little Pony’s own Bill Cipher in the form of Cosmos, and came out on top more than once against her. He also physically fought her and went toe to toe in outsmarting her in their battle. There is simply nothing that Bill can really offer that is going to be all that new for Discord to deal with. No matter how you look at it, Discord completely destroys Bill Cipher in the field of experience, by leaps and bounds.


This also applies to raw skill. It is worth remembering that Bill Cipher only gained full access to all of his powers shortly after defeating the Time Baby. He didn’t have all of his powers for really all that long. Especially compared to Discord, who casually uses his mastery of chaos on an everyday basis in all situations. When it comes down to who is more skilled, Discord just logically takes the edge by a noteworthy margin. There’s not really anything Bill can do here.


Ultimately, the subject of tertiary factors is just very open and shut. Sure, Bill’s smart, but so is Discord. The gap is close enough for it not to be the biggest factor in consideration here, especially when Discord absolutely crushes Bill in the fields of skill and experience. The Lord of Chaos takes this category with great ease, adding even more advantages to the tally for Discord to utilize.

Conclusion

"Make sense? Oh, what fun is there in making sense?"

Advantages:

  • Can match Bill in power and durability, if not completely surpass him

    • Has numerous counters for any potential higher dimensional arguments that render them irrelevant

  • More numerous and reliable arguments for infinite speed

    • Faster with reliable quantifiable ends as well

  • Superior regeneration that will make him extremely difficult to take down

  • Numerous options and more reliable ways to destroy Bill

  • Counters the vast majority of Bill’s hax and powers

  • Superior arsenal (Plunderseeds, Bewitching Bell, Color Tome)

  • Will be growing stronger at an exponentially superior rate compared to Bill with his chaos empowerment, completely dominating any lengthy fights with ease

  • Can match Bill in intelligence

  • Absolutely crushes Bill in combat skill

  • Has 3 layered madness manipulation, meaning he could drive Bill mad, compared to Bill’s 2 layered madness manip

  • Completely dominates in the mindscape, because his mind nullifies all magic from outside forces.

  • More level headed fighter and less prone to rash actions in combat

  • Eurobeat Brony

  • The Magic of Friendship

  • The Beautiful side of the MLP Community


Disadvantages:

  • Potentially vulnerable to being manipulated if Bill plays the right cards very carefully

  • Will struggle to kill Bill physically due to regeneration

  • Deals could be a problem if Bill pulls any off

  • The Toxic side of the MLP Community 


In the end, the fight can certainly be seen as debatable, but Team Discord feels that the Lord of Chaos has all the advantages that are needed to break Bill. He can easily match or possibly surpass Bill in stats, and completely has control over hax and powers. He is vastly more experienced, skilled, intelligent, and just has everything he needs to win this duel. Ultimately, Weirdmaggedon will fall, and Equestria will live on another day in peace. For chaos incarnate will rise up, and Bill Cipher will never threaten the multiverse (or Trixie! (DUDE, I SWEAR TO GOD)) again when all chaos breaks loose and ends his existence. The winner is Discord, Equestria’s Lord of Chaos.

Alternate Verdict

Hey, Robot972 here. Sorry to butt in right at the end, but I had my own thoughts on why Discord wins this matchup and the blog team decided this  would be the easiest way to include it.


So, if you want to read my personal opinion on this matchup’s results, check out my Verdict over here.


Bit goofy that this happened the one time we did a Team Verdict, but oh well. Chaos was bound to occur in a matchup like this.

Final Tally


Team Bill Cipher(11): 

The Monster King

SneedFormerlyChuck

Mav

Why am I here

Badtime32

Tru

Birb

Koolguy14

KingCorporeal

MomoUra

Oleggator 


Team Discord(5): 

MKF4

BPD

Robot972

Frisk863

Nobrainer13


Team Old Man McGucket(1): 

Why am I here


The winner is Ryuko


Comments

  1. Don't mind me I am just here to see death battle fans act like the toxic heads I know they are

    ReplyDelete
  2. Honestly, I'm actually seeing very solid, interesting arguments on both sides. Likely better than the other G1 Prediction Blog when that comes out. I'm rooting for Bill Cipher but expecting Discord to win.

    ReplyDelete
  3. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Bill sweep! Bill...🇼 🇮 🇳❗❗❗

    ReplyDelete

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